Rankings of top models & automakers by registrations in the US.
By Wolf Richter for WOLF STREET.
The thing about Ford pickup trucks is that they used to be the #1 bestseller of all models in the US much of the time. Other full-size trucks were near the top too and made it to #1 from time to time because the US is where full-size pickups are bestsellers.
Pickups these days come with big-fat prices for buyers, and with big-fat profit margins for automakers and dealers. Buyers didn’t mind paying out of their nose for big equipment – but that may be changing now. Fancy pickups – high-powered 4-door 4×4 fully loaded trucks – can cost over $100,000. And the Ford F-150 often ranked at the top and did so again last year.
But that has changed in 2024. The F-150 (both ICE and EV models combined) dropped to #3, actually to #4 in Q1 and picked up some share to end up in the #3 spot for the first half, with a share of 2.7%, behind the Toyota RAV4 (2.8%) and the Tesla Model Y (2.8%), based on registrations, reported by Experian yesterday.
The Chevrolet Silverado 1500’s share rose to 2.5% and it moved up to #5. The GMC Sierra 1500 had a share of 1.4%.
Stellantis has a huge problem. The Ram 1500 – there’s a glut of them now clogging up dealer lots and overflow lots – dropped off Experian’s list of the 20 bestselling models for the first half, from #10 in Q1. Overall, Stellantis dropped to #6 in the first half, now surpassed by Honda and Hyundai-Kia.
The top 5 Bestselling models in the US, according to Experian’s report on registrations (a registration occurs when the new vehicle that was sold to an end user is registered at the DMV to obtain the title):
- #1 Toyota RAV4: share in the first half dropped to 2.8%, from 3.2% in Q1, just a hair ahead of Tesla’s Model Y.
- #2 Tesla Model Y: share rose to 2.8%, its highest share ever (up from 2.6% in Q1), a hair away from being the #1 bestselling model in the US.
- #3 Ford F-150: re-gained share to 2.7%, after having dropped to #4 in Q1 with a share of 2.4%. In Q3 2023, it was still #1, ahead of the Model Y (2.5%), but it’s share had already dropped to 3.0%.
- #4 Honda CR-V: maintained its share of 2.5%, coming in head-to-head with the next pickup in line, the Chevrolet Silverado 1500.
- #5 Chevrolet Silverado 1500: regained share, from the drop-off in prior quarters, and at 2.5%, was back where it had been in Q1 2023
The Big Three US automakers:
- GM (Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, and GMC) remained #1 with a share of 17.0% (up from 15.7% in Q1).
- Ford (Ford, Lincoln) remained #3 but lost share, at 12.4% (from 13.0% in Q1).
- Tesla became #8 in 2023, and has stayed there in 2024. Its share rose to 4.1% (from 3.5% in Q1).
The big foreign automakers:
The “foreign automakers” here manufacture most of the vehicles they sell in the US either in the US or in Mexico. Honda’s models have for years ranked with Teslas at the top in terms of US content. Toyota makes a number of its vehicles in the US, including its full-size pickup (made in Texas). The Camry also ranks near the top in terms of US-content. So “foreign” is not about where vehicles are manufactured, but about the name plates on the vehicles.
- Toyota (Toyota, Lexus) remained #2, well ahead of Ford.
- Hyundai-Kia became the #4 automaker in 2023 and stayed there this year, up from #5 in 2021 and 2022 and #6 in 2020. It’s share reached 10.8% in the second half.
- Honda regained its #5 spot, after having lost it during the period of shortages.
- Stellantis, a European auto-conglomerate formerly known as Peugeot (PSA), acquired FCA – and thereby Ram, Jeep, Dodge, and Chrysler. In the first half, Stellantis got booted down to #6, from #5 in Q1. Its share dropped to 8.3%, from 9.0% in Q1, and from 9.9% in Q3 2023. More on its dealer revolt in a moment
- Nissan remained #7.
| Share Registrations by Automaker | 2024 first half | |
| 1 | GM | 17.0% |
| 2 | Toyota | 15.4% |
| 3 | Ford | 12.4% |
| 4 | Hyundai-Kia | 10.8% |
| 5 | Honda | 8.7% |
| 6 | Stellantis | 8.3% |
| 7 | Nissan | 6.5% |
| 8 | Tesla | 4.1% |
| 9 | Subaru | 4.1% |
| 10 | VW | 3.6% |
| 11 | Mazda | 2.6% |
| 12 | BMW | 2.3% |
| 13 | Daimler | 1.8% |
| 14 | Geely (Volvo) | 0.8% |
| 15 | Tata | 0.6% |
EV market share grew to a record 9.0% in Q2 (April-June), up from 8.1% a year ago. This category covers battery-electric vehicles only and does not include hybrids and plug-in hybrids. And they continue to eat market share from ICE vehicles, despite the ridiculous clickbait media coverage of declining demand for EVs.
A special word of love for Stellantis.
Jeep and Ram dealers in the US are in revolt against Stellantis management that has prioritized high prices and high corporate profit margins – a nasty strategy during the pandemic and shortages – to cater to Wall Street. That strategy worked for a while. And then it didn’t. The market share losses have caused its shares [STLA] to plunge by nearly 50% since their Wall Street benighted peak in March. Greed comes home to roost.
So in a letter sent to Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares, a Jeep and Ram dealer advisory group last week raged about top management’s “disastrous choices” and “reckless short-term decision-making to secure record profits” that caused prices to be too high, which then caused the sales decline, the loss in market share, and the glut of vehicles on dealer lots. The letter was viewed by media outlets, including the WSJ.
The dealers accused the company of prioritizing high prices and high profit margins, and giving up sales and market share. They called on the CEO to spend more on promotions and incentives to clear out the glut of vehicles on their lots.
“Your own distribution network, your dealer body, has been left in an anemic and diminished state,” the letter said.
This letter came after months of complaints by dealers – that kept reaching the media – that the company needed to cut prices and increase discounts and incentives, that prices were too high and weren’t competitive, and that they were losing sales because of them, and that they were drowning in a glut of trucks that were getting old and stale on their lots.
That said… Ram and Jeep dealers were among the worst slapping huge and obnoxious addendum stickers on the MSRPs of their trucks during the shortages, and even after the shortages had started to fade, and we hope that potential customers who saw that and walked away in disgust, and those customers that were dumb enough to pay for those addendum stickers, will never-ever forget it and will never-ever set foot in that dealership. And that’s another side of the problem, but Ram dealers brought it upon themselves. They’d violated the old rule in the car business: You can milk a cow many times, but you can bleed it only once.
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Dealers are right.
Jeep prices are in BMW, MB, Audi level for something that they cannot compete.
Why pay $65k for a Jeep GrandCherokee when you can get so many other luxury brand cars.
JEEPS:
If you have a RAV-4, you can remove a spark plug so it runs a little rough, then poke a tiny hole in the oil pan so you have a constant oil leak on the garage floor, and you will feel like a Jeep owner without actually suffering from being a Jeep owner.
😆.. cruel but true, my buddy loved his Cherokee, but was spending more time at the mechanic than enjoying it in the end, traded in for a Mazda and although he’s not in love he has time to do stuff since it never breaks lol
I drive a loaded Ford F-150 as I have these past +0 years. I can’t imagine going back to the 78 TBird 426 years. I don’t have the vigor.
The problem is that, apparently, my oversized vehicle is a menace when it collides with the smaller, affordable vehicles. A perfectly reasonable disagreement.
Since I’m old, I hope too drive my bid iron into the grave before the devil knows I’m dead.
Saw a jeep stuck in the sand dunes engulfed in flames, joked that it had a bumper sticker that says “it’s a jeep thing, you wouldn’t understand”
I think you underestimate how well a Toyota will hold up.
Jeeps suck sooooo bad. Had one as a rental once (free “upgrade”) in PR. It reeked of cheep cologne from the guy before me. I had to stop for gas twice as often because they made the tank small hoping you wouldn’t notice the guzzle. Worse, I felt like such a douche…
The 2024 Jeep Grand Wagoneers MSRP is $90k and they go up to $116k!
Rocking my 74 Ford pinto in avocado green, take your Jetsons space cars and put them where the sun dont shine, lol! Don’t even need seat belts, if you’re not on the edge you’re taking up too much space.
Only other car with similar moxie would be a VW thang. Not thing, where I live it’s pronounced thang.
74 Pinto was my first car, back in 1988. It was brown. I offered a buddy $300 for it and he said “wellll….it’s a deal if you make it $250.” It broke down on the way home from college, my dad and I spent the summer rebuilding the engine. After that it did fine, though I did have to replace the muffler bracket with a coat hanger. Couple years after I finally sold it, I saw the buyers drive it past me on the road, going the other way. They gave me a dirty look so maybe it wasn’t working out that well.
Next car was a bright yellow 73 Beetle. That took some engine work too but overall it was all right. Mainly I worried about dropping through the rusted-out floorpan. The hole between me and the pedals kept getting bigger.
Lol, beetle was just reverting to a Flintstones mobile. Been in plenty of those over the years.
It was a better car than Vega, that had an aluminum head. If it was ever overheated, it warped. Ford still had enough guys who had come up from the foundry to know the Al head wasn’t suitable for a family car. Both were made to fend off the VW Beetle, which was arriving in quantity.
Midget racers first went thru all the Nova 4 bangers (an old offy lover nostalgia?) and then went to that Ford six you mention and Volvo mills.
Needless to say, racing really tests any engine design.
The 86 Bronco 4X4 was a better vehicle in pretty much every dimension one could envision starting with rollover stability. As another manufacturer found out was important.
The same is true for F-150s. It was one thing to view a top-trim F-150 through a $70K lens, but now that they are $90K, you need to compare them to other $90K vehicles. I recently traded a 23 F-150 Platinum Powerboost for a 25 X5. Ford wishes they could design and produce a vehicle like this. It’s a corporate cash purchase, and it will never be out of warranty, not that Ford is a pillar of quality. I have owned my last Ford and won’t consider GM or Stellantis either.
I like Teslas and I like EVs. That being said, I do think it’s unfair, and part of the reason that the Model Y is at 2.8%, is that taxpayers are handing $7,500 to each buyer, and that Tesla is exempt from the ridiculous franchise laws many states have. I have talked to three separate people, anecdotal of course, that said that one of the big draws was ordering online and not having to deal with scummy salespeople at dealerships.
All manufacturers should be allowed to sell this way.
“All manufacturers should be allowed to sell this way.”
Agreed. But dealers are independent businesses, some are publicly traded, others are family-owned, and abandoning the protection granted to them by the state franchise laws would kill their businesses as manufacturers would sell new vehicles around the backs. They have powerful lobbies at the state and federal levels to protect the state franchise laws.
They can enter the used market. They can enter the service market.
If you are a middle person – your job is forever at risk of innovation. I won’t be surprised if AI tools on consumer side start hammering the dealers on pricing as well. Oh I can’t wait for an AI app to start calling the sale people and negotiate on my behalf. What a day would that be.
SIRI – negotiate a CPO Insert Make Model with a few preferences for me.
I’d pay for that app. I’d pay for any app that deals with middle people on my behalf and drives them nuts.
“They can enter the used market. They can enter the service market.”
They’re already massively in repair services, including warranty, non-warranty, and collision damage; and they’re already selling used vehicles, including those they bought at auctions, and make a lot of money there.
But they would lose the new vehicle business and F&I for new vehicles without replacement. That’s close to half of their revenues that would just go away.
For example, AutoNation, the largest franchised dealer in the US, revenues, last quarter:
new vehicles: $3.1 billion
used vehicles: $1.9 billion
Parts & service: $1.1 billion
F&I net (pure gross profit): $324 million
TOTAL revenue: $6.5 billion
Without new vehicles, they would have $3.2 billion in revenues. F&I profit might shrink to $100 million. So this would cut the company in half, but it would not cut their property and expenses in half and they would no longer be viable.
There are used-vehicle-only dealers, biggest one is CarMax, but they’re not set up like franchised dealers and have much lower expenses. A franchised dealer who loses their NV business sits on a largely empty lot.
I mean, fine with me. But this is why the dealer lobby fights so ferociously to keep the power of the franchise laws undiminished. For them, it’s an existential issue.
I understand why it happens, but ever since I thought about it in my freshman economics class, I’ve always thought that businesses that have a model that doesn’t work without government protectionism deserve to fail.
The race to the bottom in the cost of consumer goods continues. The State Franchise laws stand in the way of a less expensive, but spade society, reduced as profit loses it’s providence.
The laws should not be relaxed on the say so of an American oligarch on his way to the first trillionaire.
Oh goody.
themsicles, do you buy vehicles so often that this is a significant part of your life? I haven’t purchased a vehicle since 2014, and with any luck won’t do so for another 4 or 5 years.
Well yes but isn’t “being killed” inevitable? The people who made horse drawn carriages, whips, put on horseshoes and many others went out of business as they did not keep up with changes. Whether people share my love and excitement of the shift of power from dealers to the consumer or not, change will continue to happen. So gas station owners, brick and mortar banks, coal miners, oil refineries you are put on notice. Near free energy will happen (already here in Australia, the USA is typically a decade behind)
Car dealership owners are among what I consider to be the “American gentry” — their influence over municipal and state politics should not be underestimated.
Elsewhere you mention that dealers make 3.2 billion in new car sales. So we saying that the middleman makes that in profits from the sale of new vehicles without really adding any value to the car buyer? Seems like the car buyer is being ripped off. Rather get a cheaper price by ordering direct.
What I cited were REVENUES not profits. This is what I said in the comment:
For example, AutoNation, the largest franchised dealer in the US, revenues, last quarter:
new vehicles: $3.1 billion
used vehicles: $1.9 billion
Parts & service: $1.1 billion
F&I net (pure gross profit): $324 million
TOTAL revenue: $6.5 billion
The net profit on new vehicle sales (without F&I) is just a few percent of revenues. There is the gross profit (difference between cost and selling price), then dealers have to pay for expenses to get these revenues, including paying their staff (sales, make-ready, back-office including title clerks), paying floorplan interest, advertising, the land and building costs, etc. (but they get some subsidies for floorplan and advertising from the automakers). There are a lot of costs involved in selling new cars. So dealers don’t make a lot of money selling new cars, but it feeds their other businesses.
According to a guy I used to share a shop with ( a good friend) who loves Teslas and already has a model 3. He says that the lightly used model Y’s from Hertz ( or one of the rental places) are so cheap that he wants to buy one and convert it in to a kind of work truck that can haul 10 foot lengths of copper gutter and bar stock. He is a metal worker so perhaps it is possible. He needs to replace the 1995 Toyota T-100 I sold him 10 years ago that now has 300,000 miles on it.
Clay Dennis,
Either you or your guy is fabricating anti-EV bullshit, and you’re abusing my site to spread it here.
A brand new 2024 Model Y “Long range” after rebates sells for $37.5K from Tesla, and on top of that state rebates may also apply.
Hertz is selling 2022 Model Y long range from $29K-plus, depending on miles. For example, 2022 Model Y with 72,000 miles for $29.3k, or 2022 Model Y with 54,000 miles $31.8K, or 2022 Model Y with 47,000 miles for $34k. THAT’S EXPENSIVE, and HIGH MILEAGE for rental cars, given that you can buy a brand new 2024 after rebates for $37.5K.
We buy rental cars, and our sweet spot is below 30,000 miles. I’d never buy a rental car with 50,000 or 70,000 miles. Those are high-milers. They should sell for a LOT less.
You can just look up the prices on the internet instead of spreading stupid bullshit here.
The US “truck culture” is probably ending due to the high prices of the trucks themselves, the high price of gas, and the extremely high price of auto insurance. That $86,000 Ram crew cab 4×4 Hemi deluxe ST whatever is a $1000 payment, $700 in gas, and maybe $250 a month in insurance. The Camry hybrid four door that comes in at $500/200/120 starts to look a lot better. “But sometimes I need to help my friends move, or pick up a new flat-panel at Best Buy”.
Nope. If prices were going to do that, they would have already. Americans are bad consumers when it comes to getting what suits them best, but are real good at staying in debt and on budget forever. And the truck cult is too real – too many people insist that they need these for whatever reason – freedom, safety, towing recreational vehicles, carrying something once per year in the bed, or just general comfort – i.e. they’re really fat and need something big. I’m in the camp that anything not 3/4 ton and up is not a truck, at least not for real work purposes. They’re fancy passenger vehicles with a bed. The nonsensical notion that the Sierra and Silverado are different products despite being identical in every way except for badging and minor differences in appearances is something that makes no sense – you’d think GM would be proud to call BS on Ford’s continual claim that the F150 is the best selling pickup, but the vehicle industry generally makes no sense other than it is a pursuit of profit by conservative executives that are forced to actually make something that’s necessary and please Wall Street at the same time. Gas prices would have to double and the unemployment rate would have to triple to break the truck cult.
Don’t you just hate it when people buy stuff you don’t think they should be buying?
@Warren G. Harding it seems like every year for the past 50 years the percentage of people (on BOTH the right and left) that care what other people are buying is increasing (with people on the fringes certain that one more electric car will crash the power grid or one more F150 means climate doom…
I saw three Cybertrucks bunched up at a stoplight yesterday. It’s more popular than I imagined it would be in Seattle.
One of them had imperfections in the huge flat body panels, and it stuck out like a sore thumb. The same truck also had rust on the wheel hubs. I was very surprised to see the rust on a “premium” vehicle like that.
When people pay $100k for that sort of thing, it takes pricing pressure off everything I want to buy, so I hope they keep buying them.
Bobber
So they figured this out: it’s not the steel on the truck that is rusting. It’s iron particles (from railroad crossings, metal-working sites, etc.) that were airborne and attached to the special unpainted steel of the truck and then rust. You can clean them off with household cleaners. But it’s a lot of work, and so people don’t do it unless they go out on a date.
I also love the fingerprints on the doors where you’d normally expect doorhandles. You can also clean those off. I never once before thought about having to clean fingerprints off the door of a vehicle.
I think the trucks will be valued for the individual patina they acquire over the years, like a copper roof.
The truck kind of grows on you, and I like it better the more I look at it (the boss hates it, so no Cybertruck in our house, she says they look like the Soviet things that rolled into Prague in 1968, before she was even born, LOL).
I see quite a few of the trucks. They’re selling — though the plant still has huge production ramp-up problems.
Agree! If I want a truck, I will get a truck and I will drive it. Some people just got too much free time.
It is my money, if I want to buy a truck and not use it per some rando’s standards of “what a truck should be used for” then… Too bad. I’m sorry my likes and dislikes offend you? Ha!
It’s always opposite day in America!
Except in a mkt with a pretty limited number of manufacturers/suppliers, if a significant number of buyers (60%+?) make a foolish decision, the suppliers accommodate themselves to that dubious decision (usually eagerly…as consumer foolishness usually translates into supplier profit) and the mkt pumps out primarily foolish things.
Think about auto financing and the fact that 85% of new cars are financed – with all its extra explicit costs…and one huge implicit cost – price inflation.
It wasn’t *that* long ago that a *much* higher percentage of buyers paid cash – and were much, much more price sensitive as a result.
But presto-changeo financing hugely compresses the *apparent* price differences between vehicles (by focusing consumers almost entirely upon monthly payments).
End result? Much higher median vehicle prices because a majority of the buying mkt has been seduced by the illusions of financing. The other 15%-40% of the buying public now gets dragooned into that stupid ecosystem…because the manufacturers accommodate themselves (willingly so) to the 60%+ of fools.
So there are externalities/collateral damage.
15 years ago, you could still buy a new car in the US for under $10,000 (*current* price point of China’s BYD EV that has all foreign makers pissing their pants…).
In 2024, there are only 2 (maybe now 1) models available in US at less than *$20k*.
Auto financing encouraged, then ratified, and ultimately compelled such levels of car price inflation (in the face of unprecedented levels of technological development and dissemination).
Yes. If so many consumers were not so stupid, maybe companies would make things better and cheaper for those of us with high standards.
This goes for a lot of things: consumers should be fighting back against forced obsolescence, hardware whose software you don’t control, subscription-based everything, as well as a Stellantis level of quality/value
Digger D. – you might add the appeal (distaff or other psychology) of increased height (we won’t even address additional ‘lift kits’), which allows viewing above the tops of surrounding mundane traffic…
may we all find a better day.
I’ve found the best day is today, not yesterday or tomorrow, so please excuse me from the better day plan.
“May we all find a better day except for the Home toad.”
What bothered me about the Chevy’s I’ve had throughout the years are when the tools required to work on them changed from standard to metric. One morning many of my tools acquired throughout the years were next to worthless….Big river song is on, got to go.
may we all find a better day except home toad.
…well shucks, Toad, have always presumed my humble wish for a better than usual day (should one get that far through my doubtlessly oblivion-bound prose) to be the one the reader is living at the moment, or as you note: “…today…”, but, okay-listen up, anyone who got this far:
“may we all find a better day EXCEPT for HT”
(…and may the hardware standard for your toolbox never change…) (y’aren’t yankin’ my ankle here, are you NBay???)…
I love your tag line, it’s such a beautiful sentiment
Ha ha. Hi Dustoff. No, I would never change handles. Whatever I said is in the record and stays there, stupid or not. Like I told Wolf, I don’t insult very easily…..or get mad at people….just beliefs I consider “stupid”.
I got chewed out by Wolf for being too….too…..me, and been just reading here lately.
“Distaff”…damn…I get how you are using it, but you sure like the nebulous words. Was a damned interesting etymology read, though…..long history. Spinning wheel parts…
Anyway, hope all is well with you and yours now…..Yes, back still prevents walking very far but I save up pain pills and shop every 10 days or so. Still on same diet and no shower/soap experiments…doing better than fine.
……and STAYING on topic I wonder if men talking cars are like women talking those celebrity mags at checkout counters.
Neither groups have had any training or work experience, etc on either subject compared to you and I with “things on wheels”. Maybe there is a mechanic of some kind here, but they are all just slaves to advertising and a few anecdotes….Advertising should NOT be a TAX WRITE OFF like labor or equipment. It has caused much grief.
I would go for a flat amount to let small biz like Wolf operate, but that is it.
That write-off is a BIG SOCIETAL EVIL…caused many present problems humanity has.
Have read a lot of people who like your sign-off……maybe I should have one,,,like “Quit buying something stupid every week!” or “demand stupid things be removed from consumer products…like vehicles, or “food”, especially.
All my stuff goes into moderation now, will see if any of this survives….
See Happy likes it…trouble is he likely is Heritage Foundation member…..but a like is a like.
NBay – always a pleasure, brother, and copy the oft-lumpy ‘social situation’ here in Wolf’s most-excellent establishment (many thanks to the proprietor, in any case). Seems to me one of ‘Murica’s (and historically, probably all ‘successful’, ‘exceptional’, societies) possibly-fatal flaws is a well-developed, almost-genetic, belief that past performance guarantees present and future results, small-print boilerplate disclaimers to the contrary (example: the old saying of: “America is a nation of mechanics” has long legs in our zeitgeist (granting that the semantic meaning of ‘mechanical’ is debatable), but more often appears to me a parlous situation of most riding the backs of giants whilst simultaneously resting on the laurels of enjoyment (…not excluding yours truly-but there i go again…).
Still on the white-flag lap with no shot at a generally-perceived podium (one’s MMV) by the checkers, but the race itself has ALWAYS been the thing…best and better to you.
(ps: for those so inclined, if you haven’t already, highly recommend perusing the late Carroll Smith’s series of motor-racing preparation books…).
may we all find a better day.
“THE RACE itself has always been THE thing”……podium should be a simple laurel wreath…nothing more…..yes I know that’s an impossible ideal….now that money is involved in EVERYTHING….still a good goal……
GIANT: Sir Alex Issagonis…….wish we ALL had STAYED on his shoulders, but the too greedy never get “enough”…..plus the FN advertising I hate so much rots brains.
May your wire always be quiet….(while you are stirring up your own shit in your own damn way.).
Forgot..Re; RACE..
Dirt bike racing techniques/abilities/bikes are getting INCREDIBLE…berm shot and De Coster jump style is just an expected part of track layout now….I remember when I learned both when they were pretty “New”.
..one of my few TV channels sometimes has dirt races when I am in must lay on back time.
NBay – yeah, the increase in moto suspension travel, damping sophistication, and the chassis designs incorporating them since The Man’s mx years has been nothing short of amazing, should one be lucky enough to have ridden the overlapping eras. So much so that vintage mx racing (machine age restricted, competitive amateur racing of one’s old iron is popular-rebuilt a successful ’74 250 Elsinore for a buddy back in the early aughts) is conducted on bespoke tracks suiting the prox. 4″ rear travel machinery of the time rather than jumps navigated by the high-flying mx’ers of today…best, and best thoughts to your back…
may we all find a better day.
I agree. As urbanization increases, trucks will be more and more limited to commercial use.
I think both RAV4 and Model Y (after tax rebate) have good performance/price ratio. Y is certainly cooler, but charging is still a problem for EVs (3 minutes vs 30 minutes). But since most families have at least two cars, RAV4 and Model Y make a good combination I think: Long distance travels with RAV4, urban commutes with Model Y.
Just get one of the Hyundai or KIA 800 volt vehicles. The charging speed is so radically faster than anybody is willing to admit because most vehicles are still 400 volts.
“The US “truck culture” is probably ending due …..the high price of gas…”
High? You have to be kidding. Gas is very cheap. Adjusted for inflation, it’s really really cheap. And compared to Europe, it’s almost free!
I wondered when someone was going to point out the complete idiocy of that remark about high gas prices.
Your really don’t have to wait for someone else Escierto, you could step forward and say “it only costs me 200 dollars in gas to make it to grandmas house, such a deal.”
For some it’s expensive to visit grandma…to give Grandma a hug and make sure she’s ok.
How old are you people? I haven’t had a Grandma since the’80s!
Well it is subsidized by the American taxpayer.
Every taxpayer (even the electric drivers) pay half the cost of gas whether they like it or not.
There are a ton of subsidies we do in this country.
Otherwise gas would cost exactly as much as Europe pays.
What subsidies account for the exact difference between US gas market prices and the collective Europe?
Manifestly false. Almost all the price difference of gasoline in Europe is due to fuel taxes, with a small part also being the higher cost of Brent crude (Europe) vs West Texas Intermediate (US). If you take away explicit fuel taxes, the price is not much higher.
Truck people love trucks, some of my friends are towing trailers for family camping and stuff or carrying dirtbikes etc. which makes sense.. either way, I’m usually the “friend that needs help moving”, but if they didn’t have those trucks I’d just rent a uhaul or whatever it’s just cheaper to offer them a flat of beer lol. Anyway, people should buy whatever they want I don’t care, I only drive trucks at work, in my personal life I spend a bit extra to get a bit more performance, so I’m not the most reasonable consumer either.
Huh, I have a Tesla Model S and a small utility trailer. The guys at my local equipment rental place jokingly call it “the work truck” when I pick up machinery for some major landscaping I’m doing and there’s absolutely no need to have a bed on my vehicle except the maybe 15-20 times per year that I need it.
On a road trip? Don’t want the bed.
My little sports car has hauled more equipment than 95% of trucks on the road. They’re just not used that way by most people – it’s more of a status/macho symbol than actually being that practical.
I’d wager a third of all “trucks” have never had anything in the bed that wouldn’t have fit in the back of a crossover SUV.
Eric,
Seems you posted this under the wrong comment. Seems you meant to post it in reply to “Clay Dennis,”
If you repost it where it belongs, I will delete this one. It’s confusing.
Love this.
I have hauled hundreds, maybe thousands, of 2x boards in my wife’s Corolla over the years. Also, many sticks of PVC, EMT, etc. (broke the front window that way once, trying not to have them hang out the window that day), and lots if sheets of plywood ripped to 32” or less. Plenty of bags of dirt, concrete, etc. And don’t forget cases of liquor hauled back from Delaware Costco.
I might look poor driving lumber around that way, but I know I’m pretty wealthy from being resourceful.
And, I’m already married, so who am I trying to impress?
I agree and think that may eventually turn out to be an astute commentary.
The article is fun. Makes me remember the 76 Ford F-150, 396, aspirated carb, sucking 8 mpg that I bought at a great price too drive across the northern portion of the country. That truck would run 100 mph all day long, with room to accelerate. And it was handsome.
The problem was that I was pretty much broke and couldn’t afford the cost of fuel to feed that monster.
When I had to haul a lot of stuff once, I rented a truck for a day. Beats paying for a truck all year. And you don’t have any ~5%/yr property taxes? It’s the taxes and insurance that keep me in my 20 year vehicle – $38/yr tax now. Up to $2000/yr tax for a new one. My maintenance costs are cheaper that the taxes on a new one. But my luck will eventually run out.
I saw a Tesla with an “Elon Sucks” sticker on it. I guess he hasn’t undercut sales too much…
Elon has cut sales plenty. This sales data is lagging and probably a little misleading in terms of Teslas sales velocity.
Nope, the sales data is not lagging, registrations through Q2, same as the link you posted. And the only thing that is misleading is your brain.
But here we’re talking about registrations across the entire US, not just Silicon Valley or California. DUH. Your link referred to California registrations.
Yes, Musk did have an impact in California, it seems. So to see what happened in California, you go to my article on EV registrations in Q2, posted on July 19:
https://wolfstreet.com/2024/07/19/non-tesla-ev-sales-45-yoy-in-california-tesla-24-people-have-had-it-with-musks-bullshit-about-california-and-san-francisco/
“New vehicle sales in Q2 as measured by registrations, released by the California auto dealer association CNCDA today:
Teslas -24% year-over-year, to 52,211 vehicles.
Non-Tesla EVs: +45% year-over-year, to 49,232 vehicles.”
One could wonder if he didn’t present a more Liberal public persona in order to spur sales in CA when Tesla was first ramping up sales. Then once that market was saturated he seemingky switched right over a more Conservative persona to then tap into the non-CA buyers everywhere else. Musk playing 4D chess, perhaps?
Next shoe, the conservatives may cheer Musk’s brain dead remarks but they don’t buy his vehicles. They hate EVs with a passion! 4D chess? Yeah they used to say the same thing about another clueless idiot!
I somehow missed that article. I happen to like Elon, but I agree that businesses should never trash their own customers! Anecdotally, our sales at MB picked up right near the end of 23. Most of our customer’s were trading in Tesla’s because they wanted a more luxurious, smoother riding EV.
That makes sense that MB would be considered an up-trade to a Tesla.
Seems to me that only wealthy (I.e., not Trump’s base) people could afford Teslas at first, but now they’re offloading them. That’s how it seems to be in my neighborhood. But now regular people can afford them and maybe they don’t know what an ass Elon has become.
The comment about Musk hiding his true face to sell to Liberals early on is quite interesting.
MussSyke
The Model 3 has always been priced below the average transaction price of ICE vehicles. It was less expensive than the average ICE vehicle when it first came out and is a lot less expensive today since the average ICE vehicle price has shot up to $46,000.
The Model S and X are luxury vehicles for people with decent incomes. But they’re sold only in small numbers.
The Cybertruck appeals to people with decent incomes — that’s who is buying them because it’s expensive, same as with all 4-door 4×4 high-power pickups.
MussSyke,
Your statement about the poors voting for Trump doesn’t fit the exit poll data from 2020.
He has managed to BS many poor, especially those of Christian and white-nationalist bent….reality shows help.
But make no mistake about it, his business is catering to the very rich or the wannabes….in business AND POLITICS.
Actually, it is so damned obvious what that simple minded shit is up to it isn’t even worth talking about.
I’m wasting words.
Maybe just glad SOME of my stuff makes it past moderation here.
Geez good luck getting service on that car.
Haha
What a brave and dumb soul
Thanks for the laugh of the day. I’m sure, you know who, would approve.
The phrase, “Elon Sucks” seems accurate to many people. Which is an anomaly, given the success of his car company where one would think that one would not buy a vehicle from some one they thought sucked.
I mean ……
dang – …SO happy I’m a native ‘Murican-idiom speaker. (…have wondered about this ‘sucks’ term if advertising applied it to the vacuum-cleaner market tho…).
may we all find a better day.
Wolf – sounds like Ford and Stellantis management are rasslin’ over ‘most incompetent’ rights, but the RAM/Dodge dealer-component are leading Ford’s for that podium position? (…find myself also wondering at the ‘Mopar Muscle’-type advertising $ being expended on the Hornet in the wake of the failure of the nuevo-Dart…).
may we all find a better day.
They’re sure trying to outdo each other.
Tesla at 4.1% and EVs total at 9.0% mean that Tesla is below 50% EV share in the US. If it holds for the year, that would be a first. In Europe they are at 12% EV share, and in China below 10%. Market cap is still at absurd levels. But robotaxis, or whatever…
Yes, that’s the trend. There are now lots of EV models on the market by new automakers and by the legacy automakers. Even Toyota is finally starting to dabble in them.
Yep and next year Hyundai/Kia starts making EVs in the US, making them eligible for the tax credit (initially only half credit until they get the battery part of the factory up and running later in the year). That will further eat into other automakers’ EV share.
I’m going to shill for them every day. Test drive any EV from those two in your preferred form factor. One of my coworkers was despondent over how he disliked the other EVs and didn’t consider an Ioniq 6 until I told him to drive it. He ended up getting a 5 and a 6.
The Hyundai Ioniq’s are impressive cars. Unfortunately, the dealer network that’s selling and servicing them is not nearly as impressive.
I work with a large fleet that includes EV’s. I was evaluating a Genesis G80e when the onboard charger expired without warning which immobilized the car. And I do mean IMMOBILIZED. Couldn’t even put it into neutral to allow it to be loaded onto a flatbed tow truck. Tow driver was understandably reluctant to try and drag a 6K lb car up onto his truck with the wheels locked. Took another day to find a wheel-lift truck with wheel dollies for the rear. During this entire period, it was sitting blocking a Level 3 charger
The local Hyundai dealer took seven weeks to repair the car, during which it became clear that they had no clue what was wrong and were just replacing parts and hoping it got better. Based on the list I saw, they put something like $4K of parts into the car before they finally got lucky and fixed it.
It was returned it to me with a nail in one of the tires. The dealer initially tried to claim that it was there when I dropped the car off, claimed they couldn’t patch it, and only relented when I threatened to get our fleet buyer and Hyundai corporate involved in the problem. That whole experience has left me reluctant to buy a car that would be going to these same people for service/repair.
Fellow Cynical Engineer,
My Brother-in-law left his Rivian in my driveway for a couple months, during which time it lost 5% charge per day sitting, had the frunk and trunk mysteriously open overnight, and brick itself in the same way you described the Hyundai. These are common problems, apparently, with no fixes in sight.
Personally, I think there is just too much software in cars, but all the manufacturers have kinks to work out, it seems.
Which too me is absurd in the sense that the product category that I think makes the most sense for record sales is the hybrid. Which Toyota’s Prius has been saying for the last 20 years.
I suspect that the relative complexity of the hybrid format may be a factor.
9% EV share of all sales in a country like the US is actually very impressive, with all the smear jobs in the media I was starting to doubt what I believed. I guess it’s really time to put legacy media to bed, it’s just not working anymore in the age of the internet.
Having said that I don’t know if my next car will be an EV, I’m a slow adopter, and I really like my current ICE vehicle. But if the trend continues I’ll be looking at jobs in utility companies, could be some opportunities there 😆
I keep hearing rumors of a new battery to be available in 1-2 years that has 2X capacity <1/2 the charging time, and is not a fire hazard. If so, I might get one then.
Foreign nameplate vehicles may be assembled in the US, but where do the parts come from? Where are all the engineers that do the designs. Where are the head office executive jobs?
As I pointed out in the article, that’s why the measure of “US content” is important. Ford and GM rank very low, but Tesla, Honda, Toyota, VW rank highest.
It’s not just where the content comes from, at least for Honda – Engineering, R&D for US models mostly happens in Marysville OH. Assembly is right next door for several models. Most of their suppliers are in the area or next state over. True, the parent company of American Honda Motor Co. is Japanese but you are free to buy their stock on the US exchanges. I gave up on log ago in thinking that the BIG 3 were somehow more domestic than the “foreign” brands.
I get what you are saying but…
I don’t think the foreign trade stats (extremely sensitive politically and therefore closely scrutinized) agree with your point – the trade stats *hugely* credit foreign manufacturers with huge amounts of money exiting the US…so domestic assembly (most common of US plants) isn’t where the vast bulk of auto revenues end up.
Auto trade deficits are right up there with the oil trade deficit and electronics trade deficit as the major components of US total trade deficit (perpetual and ever more frightening).
Oil trade deficits have declined in the face of fracking…but electronics, electrical machinery, and autos are still a nightmare in terms of foreign makers beating the hell out of US makers in terms of intl competitiveness.
Cas127,
Instead of looking it up, you come up with conspiracy theories to explain it.
Data YTD through July, and yes you could have downloaded it from the government that you hate so much.
Automotive vehicles, parts, and engines are only 14.9% of total imports of goods.
The biggest categories of imports are “Capital Goods except automotive” (28.9%), “Consumer Goods” (24.1%), and “Industrial supplies and materials” (20.6%)
Wolf,
This is the level of industry granularity that I am talking about…
https://www.worldstopexports.com/worlds-top-imports-products-countries/
That’s just an OUTDATED regurgitation (for the year 2022) of the Census figures of which I gave you the most current version though July 2024, and exhorted you to look them up for the details, DUH.
I gave you:
1. the most current figures through July 2024. (The link you used was through the year 2022).
2. summary figures so that even you could see that what you’d said was BS.
Do you ever run out of BS to waste my time with? I mean just one, like have a BS shortage?
Yes, those Buicks from S. Korea and China are really chuck full of parts from the States. As Wolf said- they are more American made than many domestic manufacturers.
I’ve bought Honda and Toyota for decades now and all were among the most ‘American’ made vehicles available. Tired of hearing the union slogan of ‘better to buy a foreign made GM than an American made Toyota. What’s better is the one that employs people here, not pad domestic executives bonuses.
The EV market share at 9% and Tesla Model Y number 2? Never would have believed it 5 years ago. A lot of deceptive media about the EV market going on today.
Thanks for posting.
Electric car sales “worldwide” account for 18% of car sales in 2023, last year it was 14%, 5 years prior it was 2%. So I imagine for this year 2024, it will be well over 20% and by 2030 with more charging stations and better battery technology it could be close to or above 40% worldwide… picking up steam it appears. Even Santa will be giving up the reindeer for an electric sled…
( This is what Google says) ???
Soon the telephone pole, the gas stations and the stock market will relics of the past.
I would imagine on volume, coal king China has more EV sales than all the rest combined.
China is the king of solar and wind power globally, by far. And it’s building more nuclear power plants right now than the entire world combined, and it’s still building more hydropower capacity than the entire world combined.
And they are still building more coal plants.
I’m all fine with that.
What’s the permitting time frame in America
for a nuclear plant…damming a river…a new coal plant?
Thankfully we don’t damn rivers anymore. Wind and solar and batteries are now the huge thing — the batteries for making arbitrage profits between the wholesale price peaks of the day during demand peaks, and the price troughs during demand lows. Utilities and independent providers are all over this now.
With 1.4 billion people, China’s absolute numbers are the highest in many things. In percentage terms, the highest use of wind/solar is Denmark. The highest percentage of renewables, which includes hydro, is Norway. In its percentage of coal use, China is #1 at 50%.
“Stellantis Plunges off Greed Cliff. ” never truer words spoken….spot on!!!!
@Jim Basham am I the only one who is ready to hear “Ask your doctor if Stallantis is right for you” after hearing the made up name for the new Euro owned Chrysler Corp.
I went to my specialty beer store and asked for a sixpack of Stellantis. That’s how I dealt with the name change. I mean, what else am I — who lived in Belgium for years — to do when something like this happens?
Did the clerk say: You mean Stella-Artois?
👍🤣
He said, “I recommend Leffe Blonde. It’s much better.”
Apt. – good addition (even if auto/typo-whatever) of ‘Stall’antis to the old game of parsing a perceived quality of an auto brand (examples: Ford=’Fix Or Repair Daily’, FIAT=’Fix It Again, Tony’, etc.) stemming from a poor experience with same (…not to be conflated with Stella-quaffing, natch!).
may we all find a better day.
Non-believers would quip that English sports car brand Lotus meant
Lots Of Trouble (Usually Serious)
EE – 🤣!, haven’t heard that one, before (and I was parts manager at a Lotus (2 new unit sales a year was considered ‘good’)-Ducati(!) dealership in the late ’80’s…
may we all find a better day.
My friends just bought the Nissan Ariya EV and they really like it. Slightly higher price point but a quality vehicle. Will be interesting to see who in the long run the winners and losers will be in this space. I drive my ICE RAV4 so little that no reason to consider a change but 5 years from now when technology is several generations further along and perhaps reliable charging for more than commute I might consider.
I really like the Ariya’s interior. I think it is one of the best among EVs. It’s not too busy but at the same time not as spartan as Tesla’s interiors.
Tesla’s margins have dropped sharply so they are cutting prices to attain their higher unit sales. Not sure how those price declines compare to the other major manufacturers.
I really need a new car but decided to keep my 16 yo econo-car on the road for a little while longer.
I saved and saved for a new car and then covid hit. Dealers all of a sudden wanted $20K plus MSRP to get the privilege to buy from them. So I said no on principle and decided to wait them out.
I wish the days of paying $500 below invoice and walking out were still a thing.
Toyota Corolla holding its own still!
@sufferinsucatash last time I was at the Toyoata dealer they had a $50K “Corolla” (a GR Model with the 300hp 3cyl). I’m sure the Carolla GR is a fun to drive dependable car (with more power than the 80’s 911 Turbo from half the cylinders) but I’m pretty sure you would get more for your money (and have better resale value) buying a used M3 or 911 (that have both had over 300hp for ~20 years).
Oh geez that’s insane.
The kid should buy the cheapest Corolla, invest the rest. Then could have a free Corolla the next time he needs one. (Maybe) 😀
Saw in SF a week ago out of 7 cars street-parked in a row 6 were Teslas.
Must have been in my neighborhood.
I drove down to Portola Valley to play tennis with a friend of mine earlier this week and it seemed like close to half the cars on 280 were Teslas (Elon moving slightly to the right does not seem to be hurting sales in N. Cal). P.S. To Wolf last week Jalopnik wrote: “Cybertruck Owner Spends $4,200 On Stainless Steel-Look Wrap To Avoid Headache Of Actual Stainless Steel It’s almost like there’s a reason auto companies paint their cars.”…
I saw one with one of those skins. Kind of a dark gray. Looked great.
1) Inventory is normal, but new car prices are abnormal. Dealers sales are up Qt2/Qt1, but still below the peak. Tesla is down from 70K to 55K cars. GM is #1, Toyota is #2, Ford is #3 and Kia/Hyundai is #4. Tesla is #8, rising from 3.5% to 4.1%.
2) Every year recycled Houses for sales “Days on the Market” cave in May/June, before rising at the end of the year. Supply peak in Sept/Oct.
3) Since Q2 2022 CL kept falling in rolling hills, but CL will not drop to the bottom of the ocean. Since Q2 2022 1W XLE is rising in an Ending
Diagonal Triangle, feasting on DUCs. Those DUCs/ DUCs might not last.
4) In Q2 2025 the Fed might cut rates buy 2% to ease gov debt payments, while the sticky CPI, ex energy and food, is rising. Higher tax collection
will fill the gov coffer…unless the Ending Diagonal Triangle send us to recession. XLE might break out above 2014 peak, starting a new bubble.
Totoya is selling them as quickly as they can make them. Their dealer inventory is only 35 days which is less than half the industry average (and Lexus division is even crazier at 30 days). I wonder how many more vehicles they could sell if their dealers had more product on the lot.
Toyota’s inventory has come up from 20 days a couple of years ago.
Maybe just a quibble, but …..
Silverado and Sierra are as similar to each other as is often found within trim/engine/drive/etc variations in models of the sane name and so arguably should be considered the best seller by far at 3.9% share
But they’re different brands and are sold by dealers with those specific franchises (though lots of dealers have all of GM’s franchises, plus a bunch of other franchises) and are reported separately by GM when it reports its deliveries. Lots of vehicle platforms are shared by two brands that automakers have, with essentially just trim differences. Ford is doing that with its Ford and Lincoln brands. Everyone is doing it. But a brand is a brand. The VIN shows the brand in the 4th-8th digits. That’s ironclad. The industry has always done this, and you’re going to be able to change that just because you think they’re the same vehicle and should count as the same, LOL.
They are the same when it comes to underlying parts, but the rub is how they content the different brands at the trim level.
For instance, I own a 2024 Chevy 2500 HD LT ZZ1 6.6L gasser, the third trim level in pricing order, which gets one the digital screens, leather (if optioned), sunroof (if optioned), some odds and ends “upmarket” options (heated seats/steering, power outlets, extra cameras/lights, etc.), but not LED DRLs/headlamps (at all) or the flexible tailgate (upcharge).
Whereas the “equivalent” GMC version is the SLE, only the number two trim level, which does come with the LED lamps and MultiPro tailgate standard, and the digital screens — but, CANNOT be optioned with leather or a sunroof (at all). GMC forces one into a higher trim level for those features.
So GM gives certain features standard with GMC, mostly cosmetic to fit that “upmarket” branding look, but restricting the content to force GMC buyers going after those looks to upgrade to a higher trim level for even relatively basic luxuries. Whereas, Chevy restricts you on the looks at the lower trims, but let’s you option more actual goodies, without having to move up to lux-tier trims.
Overall, the brands do target and secure different types of consumers. I could care less about LED headlights and a fancy tailgate, but leather is non-negotiable for me, and the sunroof for the wife. So Chevy got my purchase over the GMC since we neither wanted or needed a top-tier trim.
MW: Electric vehicles are suddenly the best deal in the used-car market as sellers confront plummeting prices
You idiot, don’t you ever read anything here? You’re abusing my site to spread clickbait f**king malicious bullshit written by braindead ignorant f**king morons and published in clickbait bullshit rags such as MarketWatch. Do you drag this ignorant malicious shit into here to make sure everyone knows what kind of idiot you are?
I’ve totally had it with this ignorant malicious clickbait f**king anti-EV bullshit posted by morons for morons. I thought this was clear. But maybe not. How much clearer can I make it?
So here are the facts:
https://wolfstreet.com/2024/09/09/this-may-be-the-end-of-the-massive-deflation-in-used-vehicles-that-pushed-down-core-cpi-wholesale-prices-surge-for-2nd-month-amid-strong-sales-growth-tight-inventories/
EV wholesale prices spiked by 5.1% in August from July (red in the chart below), while ICE-vehicle prices jumped “only” 2.0% (blue).
Used EVs had experienced a crazy 145% price spike from January 2020 through July 2022. At the time, Tesla-flipping was a phenomenon where people bought new Teslas and resold them at much higher prices as used vehicles. Tesla, by ramping up production and cutting prices in 2022, then largely killed Tesla-flipping.
This 145% spike of EV wholesale prices was well over double the price spike of ICE vehicles (+64%). About half of those price spikes have gotten unwound.
Auction prices of EVs were at or below ICE vehicles before the pandemic. But that changed in mid-2021 when EV prices out-spiked the spiking ICE-vehicle prices. Even after the big price drops back to earth, used EV prices remain substantially higher than used ICE-vehicle prices:
“You idiot, don’t you ever read anything here?”
Freak’n hilarious…and in an economics forum no less. Wolf, how about moderation jail for the beachdude? I’m getting lonely.
I think Wolf is gently trying to remind you, context matters.
I genuinely don’t understand. Your graph shows EV prices dropping from around 38k all the way down to like 26k now. With only recently picking back up. I thought it was a general consensus that EVs are not selling as well as many manufacturers anticipated and they are having to lower prices to move them, even Tesla. I read Socalbeachdudes comments and I don’t see what is really incorrect. Maybe I am also an idiot? I work in automotive and there are rapid revisions to plans regarding EVs because sales are lower than expected, and pricing power isn’t strong like it was before, is what I see. I am not anti EV at all, but even I feel the prices have come down substantially and they are a relatively good deal right now because of that (this also goes for lithium type batteries in general, really).
you idiot. Look at the pre-2020 prices for EVs and ICE vehicles, and where are they now?? Still a lot higher than ICE, while they were below or at ICE prices before 2020.
Your whole comment is anti-EV malicious bullshit that you’re regurgitating here.
Adios too.
The bottom for EVs was 2017, and was a glorious one. Then came stupid during Covid. Why does everyone conflate anything to do with the last four years with reality? I agree with Wolf, so much fear and disinformation.
Even on this site they try hard to serve the meme moron BS manufacturers. Simply amazing.
Just like the crackpot Fed bs.
Must make someone rich
In the area where I live, developers try to shoehorn new condos often of forty units or less onto small, repurposed sites such as unneeded schools, closed churches and abandoned or cobbled together commercial properties. Revenue hungry YIMBY city halls bend the codes to skirt the required total numbers of parking spaces for new development. In general. there is no requirement to provide for dedicated spaces for current or future EV charging. Absence of charging in multiunit housing makes having an EV vehicle impractical. I see that in some jurisdictions, requirements for EV charging access are being added to building codes for new construction and one nearby suburb (Sterling Heights, MI) has an EV charging master plan. If EVs are the future, urban planning needs to reflect this.
I think it’s just going to be hard to get EV charging into multifamily overall, and I also don’t completely believe the statistics on the Chinese EV network for the same reason–duh, with more people in condo and apartment buildings there, they would have more charging stations.
“to get EV charging into multifamily overall,”
They’re already doing everywhere. It doesn’t matter what you think. For a landlord, it’s another amenity that they offer tenants to get them to sigh leases or stay put despite the rent increases. For a condo tower, it’s what the owners want. The utilities love it too because they can sell more juice and make more money on the same building.
Anyone who is building a new home or having substantial work done should be ensuring they have at least the capacity for a 60 amp circuit, and almost certainly roughing in the wire. You can just install a 60 amp plug in your garage that you won’t use at the height of the charger with enough extra wire in the box to pull out later. Builders will not tell you this and the cost to add later is many times that to upgrade an entire panel and run the wire after the fact. I don’t own an EV yet, but the cost to run just the wire and go from 150 to 200 amp panel was only $250 at my house when I was doing some other upgrades. I also had an EV charger on a new build beach vacation rental property installed for under $1000 on a new build including the Level 2 charger. These are cheap no brainers at this point unless you think the world is flat.
My 23 years old with 6MT gave in. Replaced with 2017 Rav4. A happy driver.
Glad that, according to Wolf, the timing was OK regarding the end of dropping $$ for used cars.
Nothing brings out Wolf’s inner rattlesnake venom more than automotive post comments— it’s increasingly entertaining to watch this campfire activity.
I successfully shut down the tsunami of anti-EV bullshit that this site was attacked with every time “EV” was in the title. I think it’s part of an oil industry funded propaganda operation and some of it came with the fingerprints of Putin’s propaganda machine. One of the anti-EV bullshitters even explained it in a comment. He exhorted everyone to spread this anti-EV bullshit so that OTHER people stop buying EVs. It was a stunning admission.
I used to spend 6-8 hours spread over two days just replying to anti-EV bullshit comments every time “EV” was in the title. Each article would get hundreds of anti-EV bullshit comments, many of which I deleted and 100 or so I manually shot down with facts. But these idiots don’t ever read anything, they just keep posting the same bullshit every time EV is in the title. So it’s useless trying to inform them. They’re trolls, including paid trolls, and they’re not out to learn anything.
Then I tried a new strategy: I shut down ALL comments on EV articles — and there was just 1 comment, mine, explaining why (“bullshit overload”) — but it was sort of a collective punishment that hit all other commenters, and so I scuttled that approach.
Then I started individually blocking and deleting, and blacklisting, without responding to bullshit, and that worked. Now almost all the anti-EV bullshit is gone. I only have to do an occasional mop-up operation, to serve as a reminder. So I’m very happy with that. It was a huge waste of time trying to respond with facts to all this malicious toxic anti-EV bullshit. But I can do it occasionally.
Thanks for mentioning Putin’s and his propaganda easily eaten by the all sorts of extreme right and left.
I just got the Rav4. My next car in 10y+ will be electric or so. Just needs few years to solidify the battery/charging. Solid state, no fire, long life, long range, really fast charging. And will not be Tesla, just got too personal with Musk.
Can’t fault your logic, Wolf.
I’ll probably never be in the market for an EV, but I can see the benefits for others.
Solid state batteries will make them even more efficient and easier to “fill” soon, but hybrids will benefit even more, most likely keeping me in one of those.
Just bought a ’24 Kia EV6. I installed the 240V charger in my garage myself. We have been playing with the settings on charging speeds; off-peak rates; etc. It’s fascinating to see how the system works and how differently it performs from our ’23 Telluride (ICE). The acceleration is mind-blowing and for some drivers, that could actually be dangerous. We keep it set to Eco mode for that reason — don’t need my elderly mother-in-law blowing past those $100K Ram pickups! But when I need to merge quickly, one tap to Sport mode feels like a rocket launch.
From a psychological standpoint, there is a great relief knowing that I will have a full “tank” each morning and that the driving is costing 72% less than our ICE vehicles. We have been able to squeeze a projected 385 miles out of a charge when the rated amount is 282 miles. And it has V2L, which allowed us to power the refrigerator and freezer when we lost power a few nights ago. We are very impressed!
We have not taken it for a long drive that would require a public charger, so we have a little anxiety about the process, but I am sure that will fade. The dealers need to get their salespeople to drive EVs as their demo cars, as many of them still try to steer customers away from anything but ICE.
Wolf, do you know what the relative profit margins are for the manufacturers between their ICE lineups vs their EVs?
Bullshit is the glue that binds us as Americans.
George Carlin.
I keep getting ads here for LYNX DMC-EV
The next president might cut the $7,500 rebate to cut the budget deficit and to hurt Ilan.
I hope so.
Tesla had its most successful growth years after it lost the original $7,500 rebate (capped at 200,000 deliveries) and before the new rebates were put in plate, for which the majority of Model 3s don’t qualify.
Those rebates are a waste and are not needed, they’re stupid government policy, and I hope they get cut by whoever is in the White House. EVs don’t need them.
I have raged against these rebates before:
https://wolfstreet.com/2021/09/13/democrats-proposed-ev-incentives-are-braindead-economic-policy-and-last-thing-the-booming-ev-industry-ev-hungry-consumers-need/
Tesla sales are rising possibly bc Kamala might cancel the rebate. The Lyric, Blazer ev, F-150 Lightning, Model Y, Model 3 long range, Model X, Honda Prologue and VW ID.4 are qualified in 2024. Buying a Kia ev6 isn’t, but if u lease it u might get a portion of it.
DM: Iconic American car brand sees sudden sales slump after drivers complained of soaring prices and vehicles stuffed with too much tech
Jeep sales have seen a huge slump as drivers complain about soaring prices and excessive tech inside the vehicles.
Two of its iconic models, the Wrangler and the Gladiator, face an uphill struggle to win over consumers.
The Wrangler saw sales plummet by 35 percent from almost a quarter of a million to 155,491, the Toledo Blade reports.
Meanwhile the Gladiator suffered more, with sales plunging by 38 percent, from 89,712 in 2021 to 55,187 last year.
It is a trend which has continued to plague the off-road giant for the first half of 2024.
Latest sales data show that in June, Jeep recorded its lowest ever figures for the last six years. Just 13,134 Wranglers were sold and 3,542 Gladiators.
Sales projections are so gloomy that some experts believe there may not even be a 2026 Gladiator model.
Jeep prices have skyrocketed by 61 percent since 2018, according to Caredge.
A 2024 Wrangler now starts at $31,995, up $400 from the price last year. However, a top of line model can stretch to a whopping $101,890.
The Gladiator, considered the Wrangler’s pick-up truck sister model, starts at $37,895, with a top of the range version beginning at $64,890.
‘They jacked the price up so much that they lost touch with their loyal consumer base and made it hard for people to afford.
‘No one wants to pay $50,000 to $98,000 for something that they take out on the trail. You can’t price the majority of your consumer base out of the ability to afford your vehicles and then be confused about a major slump in sales.’
Jeep fanatic Sherry Trees is currently looking to buy her second Jeep for off-road use, but is exclusively looking for vehicles with less tech.
‘Comments on the Jeep sites I’m on say the new ones with computer systems are always having problems. Give me old school, where you don’t need a computer degree to fix it,’ she said.
It is an issue that the National Highways and Transportation Authority has picked up on.
Earlier this month approximately 32,863 Jeep Wranglers and Gladiators were recalled to fix malfunctioning instrument panel clusters.
In November 2022, the NHTSA announced a recall of nearly 63,000 model year 2021-2023 Jeep Wrangler 4xe vehicles equipped with a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle engine.
No ICE sedans until #6 (Camry), only 3 ICE sedans in the top 11, and ZERO Big 3 ICE sedans in sight.
Is the Tesla Y categorized as a sedan? It kind of looks like one.
How things have changed!
The Model Y is an SUV, the Model 3 is a sedan.
Thanks for the clarification — it must be 3s that I see most of up here in Canada then.
Late to this post and find it interesting there is no mention of the BEV plant BYD is going to build in Mexico which would bring the plant under NAFTA and exempt from tariffs.
The British magazine CAR did a comparison test of the BYD Seal, Tesla Model 3 and Polestar 2 and was impressed with the Seal, ranking it slightly below the Model 3.
Michael Dunne in a recent newsletter writes about “The Great China Car Blitzkrieg” and says the following:
“While Chinese automakers steal chunks of market share, Japanese, European and American competitor appear to have no response. They are confused and overwhelmed by the speed and strength of the Chinese offensive.
The prices of the Chinese exports in particular shock them. Who can compete with $19,000?
China’s frightening car prices are a product of a powerful national arsenal that may be impossible to duplicate.
China has unmatched scale, speed, supply chains and every variety of subsidies. Ships, too. BYD and SAIC have their own Roll-on/Roll-off vessels to transport cars across oceans.
Elon Musk understands China’s decisive manufacturing advantages. It is no coincidence that his Shanghai gigafactory presently accounts for half of Tesla’s total global production.
So here’s the question of the year: If China can jump from 1 million exports in 2020 to 6 million in 2024, what is to stop China from shipping 12 million annually by 2028?
And what is to stop China’s mighty car blitzkrieg from shattering 100 years of Western car dominance?
This is the new and unsettling specter that ruins the sleep of automotive leaders outside of the People’s Republic of China.”
Friend recently bought Chev Bolt for about 54 K C$.
Happy with it, saves money on his Door Dash gig.
He doesn’t need the money, gig would drive me nuts.
Just got back from here on Van Isle from road trip to Alberta. Planned his trip but rolled into Hinton Alta and not one charger in town of 10 K people. So just go somewhere, maybe service station and just use plug in for an hour or so to get to next charger? He didn’t bring cord with him.
Ran out of juice a few miles from next charger. Tow truck charged car didn’t tow it. Apart from not taking charge cord with him, trip was fine and he is still happy with Bolt.
Alta is a rich province, only one with no sales tax, so on a main highway, you would think it could afford a charger in a town with pop of 10K.
Where did the F150 sales numbers come from?
For that matter, all of the 1/2 ton full size trucks?
Ford doesn’t publish F150 sales numbers, just F-Series.
Same goes for Ram 1500 and Silverado/Sierra 1500. It’s the F150/F250/F350/F450 and their respective counterparts from Stellantis and GM.
The Source cited, Experian, doesn’t show sales numbers for cars.
Can you publish the data or link to verifiable data, please?
The data comes from REGISTRATIONS, as the article said 11 (eleven) times, including in the subtitle. Experian releases the data in a long PDF about these registrations (includes things like engine sizes, vehicle types, vehicles in operation, number of vehicles salvaged, demographics of the buyers, etc.) which you can ask them to let you download by first filling out an application with your name, company name, industry, company email, phone number, and location.
“the European Union expects a 20 percent decline in private vehicle ownership by 2035 while the Private Miles Travelled (PMT) will go down by 15 percent around the same time“
That trend collides with lots of demographic stuff, from oil to commercial real estate and probably some dumb ai companies.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
That trend in the EU started 20 years ago when we lived in Belgium. It’s new to you, but it’s not new. Crowded cities, congestion, decent mass-transit systems (from subways to high-speed rail), and the expense of using a vehicle make not having a vehicle and not driving a good choice.
Go take some time off and go to Paris, Berlin, Vienna, Nuremberg, Munich, Marseille, Amsterdam, etc., and do all of it by rail, including high-speed rail for the distances, and regional and local rail systems, including subways, to get around locally. And walk the rest.
It works. I’ve done it for decades when I go to Europe, and for those years I lived there. There are only a few occasions when I wanted a car to go somewhere that’s time-consuming to get to or awkward by mass-transit (such as bulk shopping). I know people that have a car there, but rarely drive it because they take mass-transit. It’s only when they go somewhere special that they drive. It works well.
Even in the US, miles driven per person of driving age peaked in 2004, and is now way down, and if that is new to you, you haven’t been paying attention here because I cover this stuff with charts:
https://wolfstreet.com/2024/02/09/miles-driven-eke-out-record-in-2023-after-covid-plunge-people-drive-less-but-there-are-more-people/
So this is in the US: