Oh Elon, trying to wreck Tesla? Consumer boycotts work, see Bud Light. Don’t mess with American consumers!
Tesla sales got crushed in Q2 in California, while non-Tesla EV sales surged. Have Californians finally had it with Musk’s barrage of bullshit about California and San Francisco, causing Tesla to pay a price in sales?
New vehicle sales in Q2 as measured by registrations, released by the California auto dealer association CNCDA today:
- Teslas -24% year-over-year, to 52,211 vehicles.
- Non-Tesla EVs: +45% year-over-year, to 49,232 vehicles.
Many Californians used to think Musk walked on water, and they were in love with him and proud of him because he was cool and a genius, and a billionaire because he was part of the PayPal mafia, and then because he’d started a company that manufactured lots of cool EVs in California, and they went out and bought his EVs in huge numbers, and made the Model Y the #1 bestseller in California and the #2 bestseller in the US, while no other major automaker was even manufacturing cars in California.
But over the past few years, the bullshit about California and San Francisco started flying left and right, and maybe people finally have had it? People as in potential Tesla buyers?
The Tesla Model Y was still by far the #1 bestseller in California, ahead of the Toyota RAV4. But sales plunged 15% year-over-year to 36,343 vehicles in Q2.
Sales of the Tesla Model 3 collapsed by 59% year-over-year, to just 9,888 vehicles in Q2. Some versions of the Model 3 don’t qualify for the federal rebates due the China-sourced batteries.
Cybertruck sales in Q1 and Q2 combined were 3,048, behind the Rivian R1S (4,837) but ahead of Ford’s F-150 Lightning (2,999).
The auto market in California:
- Total EV sales: -1.3% in Q2 YoY — “only” despite the plunge in Tesla sales, thanks to the surge in non-Tesla EV sales.
- Total ICE vehicle sales: -2.1% in Q2 YoY.
- EV market share in Q2 inched up to a share of 21.9%.
California sales matter for Tesla.
Tesla’s registrations in California in Q2 2023 accounted for 14.8% of Tesla’s global deliveries as reported by Tesla. California sales matter to Tesla. That was before he turned potential buyers off.
In Q2 2024, Tesla’s global deliveries fell by 4.8% year-over-year, including the 24% plunge in California. Without California, Tesla’s global deliveries would have dipped by 1.4% YoY.
Musk’s bullshit was funny until it whacked Tesla sales.
Musk’s bullshit and lies are infamous and funny. Some cost Musk huge amounts of money, such as when he said that he wanted to buy Twitter and half-jokingly made a deal and signed something, and when he said, oh, I was just kidding, Twitter dragged him to court, and he lost and was forced to buy Twitter for a ridiculous $44 billion.
Another funny one came in 2018, when Musk tweeted, “Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured.” Which was hilarious because there was no funding secured and no deal; and because 420 is slang for marijuana, which Musk smoked that year during a video interview; and because the SEC then sued him for securities fraud, which Musk in 2018 settled for a $20 million fine and a requirement to have some of his tweets preapproved by a Tesla lawyer. He then appealed the pre-approval requirement but lost in court, and lost on appeal, and then in April 2024, the Supreme Court refused to hear his case, which has never kept him from tweeting whatever, on what is now his own platform.
Our all-time favorite was when he tweeted in October 2021: “Am thinking of starting new university: Texas Institute of Technology & Science.” We get it: TITS. Another funny one, and deadly one, and ongoing one is Full Self Driving (FSD) that people paid for via subscription but isn’t full self-driving, triggering a number of prosecutors to probe if Tesla has committed securities fraud and wire fraud by misleading investors and consumers. These are just a few examples of Musk’s bullshit.
And in his free time, starting a few years ago, Musk spread lots of similar bullshit about California and San Francisco. Obviously, he can say whatever he wants to, no matter how ridiculous, as we have seen, but consumers are not deaf, and they can boycott a product.
There are lots of beer brands on the market, you don’t have to buy Bud Light, as AB InBev found out, which owns the brand, after consumers began boycotting Bud Light in April 2023 following the Dylan Mulvaney ad, which caused Bud Light market share to plunge from #1 with a share of over 10% at the start of 2023 to #3 now, with its share hitting a new low of 6.5% of total beer dollar-sales in US stores for the four weeks ended July 6, according to the WSJ.
Don’t mess with American consumers! That’s the Bud Light lesson here.
There are now lots of EVs on the market, by legacy automakers, and by startups. The Cybertruck is facing competition from the electric pickups by Ford, Rivian, and Chevrolet. Among the major automakers, only FCA (Stellantis) doesn’t have any EVs on the market. Even Toyota belatedly has come out with them.
And Californians have started to buy these non-Tesla EVs, and their sales have surged, and they’re about to overtake Tesla, while Tesla sales have plunged. It was a tough job turning so many Californians off from their love affair with Tesla, but Musk has finally succeeded, it seems.
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And now he’s become a political operative…looking forward to seeing how his brand and upcoming Tesla sales adjustment to his latest titillation…
Musk is a union busting billionaire. What else do you need to know about him ? The Musk cult is almost as frightening as the Trump cult.
Actually it is less frightening than your leftist cult
You mean those who like a working economy, common sense and peace?
Sign me up baby.
🖊️
Every comment section has some guy trying to pretend the world’s major economies somehow aren’t liberal. Thanks for participating.
Right on GS!
You forgot – “..and assassinations.”
Laughing at the whole comedy unfolding.
What is your definition of Cult of Musk? I have no idea where they meet and I have never seen one or met one . At least to my knowledge because they must be pretty scary people .
I’ve never met one in person, only online (unless you count the insane cybertruck driver weaving through traffic the other day, but that was from afar). My hope is that they’re all AI bots and not actually really people. They’re certainly dumb enough to be.
You have never met someone from the Cult of Musk? Really? You need to get out more.
I remember circa 2017 or so being lectured by Musk cultists about how no ICE cars will be sold within10 years and how all Teslas currently on the road were going to pay for themselves because they could be used as unmanned taxis in the owners off time.
Just the other day I encountered someone who insisted that the only reason the SEC went after Musk was political persecution. I was informed that Musk was going to be selling a mobile robot that could fully replace a human for any physical task within two years.
Musk can be brilliant, but he also can be blinded by his own intelligence. Not only will he buy into his own hype, but he will also knowingly lie in order to further his own interests.
Trump’s cultists can be annoying because they willfully ignore the obvious stupidity out of his mouth, but Musk’s cult takes the cake because they openly try and justify the nuttiness that comes out of his mouth.
Maybe the competition finally caught up to him. Why is it one doesn’t look without emotion at a personal level. More choices….he is the one that got the ball rolling. Just like Ford did for the combustible engine. Just give us all a break with all the hate here.
What did musk say about SF and California?
I just heard he’s gna pay 45M a month to the Trump campaign. Crazy!
Musk has aligned himself with a party that avidly despises EVs and EV owners; the coal-rolling Dodge Ram owners who park diesels to block superchargers.
Maybe it’s a calculated gamble, he thinks he’ll win their hearts and minds by bending the knee to their king.
Nah, he’s just an ahole.
Just the opposite!
He got fools like..ahem…to subsidize his operations for years. i.e., all taxpayers.
He makes his money in space technologies. Money that’s sourced globally.
I personally don’t give a hoot about EV or ICE: whichever is cheapest at the margin. But I do suspect AI is going to clobber the EV religionists just the same. The numbers don’t work out when it comes to energy demand and baseband growth at both the generation and transport segments.
I’m wondering if Wolf really thinks that “Musk’s bullshit” has caused even 25% of the decline in Tesla sales. Living in the Bay Area I do personally know people upset at Musk, but I know even more people that are happy with what he has done with X (aka Twitter) and love it when he calls out SF politicians. Just like a small number of Jews won’t ever buy German cars and a small number of people who lost a grandfather in the Pacific won’t ever buy Japanese cars I think the people passing on a Tesla due to “Musk’s bullshit” is small (and probably balanced out by an increase in center right people that have bought a Tesla since it is no longer a left wing save the planet brand).
Depends on who you hang out with — like-minded people, eh?
What matters to Tesla is what potential EV buyers are thinking. It doesn’t matter to Tesla what someone is thinking who will never-ever buy an EV not even over his dead body. Musk is pissing off Tesla’s potential customers, and he is not inducing the MAGA crowd to suddenly do a switcheroo and buy EVs. Those pissed-off potential Tesla buyers are buying other EVs. That’s what the chart tells you.
I know this is only one data point so take it with a grain of salt, but I am going to buy an EV finally within the next year if things continue to go well. A few years ago, it absolutely would have been a Tesla. Now? It absolutely won’t be. Also, a number of my friends and former coworkers who drive Teslas are ashamed about it. They often make sure to say they bought it “before.”
Americans do like their tax rebates.
I don’t think I have ever met someone who thinks Musk improved Twitter. I wonder what metrics they are using?
By all objective metrics they are wrong. From up time, response time, etc Twitter is clearly worse.
If one wants to find racist and Neo Nazi posts in your feed than I guess Twitter has improved, but that is a decline for decent people
But X is all black now, with white letters; instead of white, with black letters as Twitter was. That’s a HUGE improvement, no?
You forgot DHS response time.
I think just about any educated person has had enough of Elon’s BS. He should just admit what he’s doing. Going to a state where it’s cheaper to do business because less taxes and near zero worker protections.
I don’t know about the zero worker protections but BINGO on the cheaper (and I’m adding easier) to do business in TX. CA taxes are astronomical. That’s a no brainer to me.
If you take his age and figure he has at least another 25. years of income that’s a huge savings in state personal income tax.
I do — and it’s trash. California’s got its problems — ok, show me Shangri-La — but it also gets A LOT right, worker protections being one item on the list. Same with Oregon and New York.
Congrats on the worker protections, being able to afford to live their would be a bonus. I’m shocked, shocked I say at the prices when I cross the border from Arizona and enter Cali. A beautiful place that I avoid like the plague.
You mentioned New York, another place along with Cali that people are fleeing because of the high cost, housing stands out.
When I get my electric car and a few million I’ll go live in ocean beach again, San Diego way. Just got to avoid the rot and crime.
Some people in Houston still do not have electricity after 2 weeks.
Poor Elon. I hope he doesn’t mind the power outages.
Maybe he should relocate to Florida where there’s no insurance to be had. It’s that fake global warming thingy!
Didn’t you get the memo ? It’s no longer “global warming”, or, “the New Ice Age “, it’s “climate change” ( anyway this year ).
Johnbarrt: that would be meme-o!
Elon is rapidly growing in popularity among a large group of Americans who would rather chew off their own arm than buy an EV :D
Hmmmm. Is that a statement about the stupidity of a large group of Americans or a statement about Musk’s ability to mask/ignore reality? Billions of dollars gives you a lot of power with regard to ignoring reality. I agree with Wolf that Musk’s behavior is self damaging but I love his move to South Texas.
I agree, he could have built that big assembly/battery manufacturing plant in Mexico instead. Thousands of jobs were created in the Austin area.
And thousands were subsequently axed a few months ago.
I really wish California would quit exporting all of their wankiest residents to Austin. Phony Stark is only the latest entrant in the phalanx of don’t-tax-me-bro takers.
Probably axed a lot of plant startup workers and final construction folks. Pretty normal in new plant construction. But, net, there are thousands of new jobs and also new sprung up businesses to support the operation.
It was barely covered in the news, but Oracle has left Austin after only 4 years for Nashville.
Would never buy an EV.
Makes no sense to do so. Where do you charge one besides your home? The grid is not being updated to accommodate millions of EVs. Gasoline is cheap and I believe electricity will get very expensive if EVs are adopted by all. The other is availability of electricity. There could be blackouts, rationing of electricity to your home by utilities. Then you have gas, coal and nuclear as sources of electricity. Only moving the source of the power of electricity from one end of the equation to the other. What good is that?
So do not buy one. Who cares?
You would say this Mr. Vance.
Purchased a Tesla after saying I would never buy an EV after I accidentally rented one. It is by far the best car I have ever owned. Worrying about the utilities shutting off your electricity but gas being readily available is a laughable reason to not buy one.
Well…Grant…you’re exactly right!
But once religion gets into it…on all sides…..all bets are off.
>Only moving the source of the power of electricity from one end of the equation to the other. What good is that?
The good is avoiding the inefficiency of the internal combustion engine and replacing it with the relatively efficient natural gas turbine. Now that I have explained it to you, I am sure you understanding and won’t bother the rest of the us with this misunderstanding.
Mention Solar or Lithium Batteries to a certain type and certain age group and you are likely to get a Large knee jerk reaction.
Ignorance at its best.
Not against Solar or Lithium Batteries.
I am not for centrally planning economies. Communists are.
Everybody likes lithium batteries, everybody likes solar. What ever are you talking about?
A few solar panels and a few lithium batteries I can go into the woods and be at peace. I now have power to run my devices.
But if you say, solar, global warming, polar bear, lithium batteries, electric vehicles,, then you’ll get a totally different response.
Who gave him the billions?
Follow the money…right? To get at the real source…right?
Climate Change politics have been just as big a scam as all the other time honored mechanisms for wealth transfer.
Excellent point, Alex!
Yup! It’s just that simple. Kind of a self-licking ice cream cone declaration. But what the heck! Amateurs lurk everywhere!
It’s the TikToc age! Is this heaven or what?!!
Elon’s endorsement of the Republican candidate for president could be viewed through the lens that many of Elon’s $Billion$ have been earned via US taxpayer largess.
The DOE loan he received in 2010 was crucial during a time when funding was otherwise tight and he’s received billions more in subsidies ever since.
In that light, the endorsement is just a continuing pattern of priming the federal tax teat. Why compete when you can just get a handout, amirite?
@wolf – any forecast as to what a realistic valuation of TSLA stock would mean for Elon’s net worth?
I recall that the loan to buy Twitter was collateralized by TSLA stock. What is the danger that a fall in the stock could violate a loan covenant and bring the whole house of cards crashing down?
No danger. Tesla share price is up bigly since its post-twitter-low, it would have to breach that again to be a problem.
Even if it does, Musk sells some shares to get back in ratio. If you didn’t hear, he just got about $50b worth given to him.
IPO Starlink he will win so big…
Tesla needs some new body styles for the 3 and Y. Cybercar maybe? Every other car here is a 3 or Y it seems.
I’ll never drink Bug Light.
All this, and the fact that the Tesla product offerings are stale and beginning to look dated.
I always had a problem with buying car that looked and acted like the same model 4 years earlier. Not sure I’m getting my money’s worth. I bot a Hummer EV instead, lol.
How do you like your Hummer?
“All this, and the fact that the Tesla product offerings are stale and beginning to look dated.”
Maybe people aren’t buying either of what EVs and California (SF) have to offer.
Just a thought to ponder …..
Weird reply that just shows your irration biases and nothing else.
If only these companies could just focus on making a good product, instead of always trying to be on the right side of social issues. To me, its a waste of resources to focus your efforts on impressing people socially. You will never win them all. Usually, if you just make a product or service that doesn’t suck (example, Toyota Sedans), people take note and buy them. But many companies feel they have to impress everyone at a personal level, I don’t get it.
Exactly!
Why do companies not embrace the monarchy anymore? Why did they abandon the Queen of England?
Bring back the monarchy now!
Less than anything you want in a beer
And it won’t matter. AB stock has stayed inline with price over the past few years. The boycott amounted to a bunch of hoopla.
1. The stock [BUD] was $100 in July 2019. Now it’s $60. So that’s -40% in five years.
2. was around $120 in 2016, so today, it’s down 50% from the 2016 level.
3. In early April 2023, before the boycott started, the stock was $66, it then fell to $52 under the boycott, and then tried to recover a little, but now fell back to $60.
4. Think of what the stock could have done without it over the past 12 months while everything else soared!
5. Big Beer has a Big Problem though. It is in a declining industry. Beer consumption per-capita in the US has been falling for decades. Overall beer consumption has been falling for years, despite population growth. Then craft brewers came along and took a big chunk of that declining market, and Big Beer was losing it. Then Big Beer started buying craft brewers to keep their revenues from falling further, and in the process, the corporate cost cutters screwed up the craft brews they’d bought. And beer consumption continues to fall. So the fight is for market share in a declining market. Now Big Beer is offering all kinds of non-beers, such as seltzers and hard sodas, to keep their revenues up, and some of these things have turned into come-and-go fads.
Constellation Brands is diversifying into marijuana.
They’ll probably sell a lot at the next RNC meeting!
Tesla’s fared somewhat better – holding a $300 share in 2018 when the ‘420’ tweet happened is now worth, after the 3:1 and 5:1 splits about 15 x Friday’s price of $240 = $3600.
@Robert with 64 P/E, 90 forward P/E (arguably very generous projections), a sharply declining market share, and freshly alienated customer base. Go ahead an buy!
The Drunken Sailors are not buying Bud. Yet.
When the economy is good and you have loads of cash, only the best beer, wine, vodka, and tequila is acceptable to impress friends, coworkers, and family.
We are still living high.
My point was that the boycott and supposed PR nightmare didn’t have any real effect. Anheuser-busch’s alleged stock smacking was from before the Dylan debacle.
@Ben R: If I had held the one TSLA share from 2018, I would probably sell and keep the 14x profit, but I would never have bought, then or recently, and never could have held anyway using a purely numerical analysis as there’s almost never been a rational reason to do so.
I’m also not a fan of rollercoaster rides.
I really think the decline in BUD stock has more to do with the decline in big beer brands than it does over a Comercial with someone most people had never heard of.
Big beer is declining because people are A.) Moving away from beer. And B.) Beer drinkers are moving away from name brands to craft beers. And C.) BUD was among the worst tasting big beers.
Agreed.
They used to be #1 and are now #3.
Never buy Bud Light Again.
Better question would be why did you ever buy Bud Light?
Elon’s a smart guy but keeps making these “mistakes,” so one must assume that he knows what he is doing – speaking freely regardless of the consequences. An awful expensive way to say what one thinks. Imagine being ok with losing millions to be able to say publicly whatever free thought goes through your head. A new definition of rich.
Part of Elon is a true genius. The other part is a mess.
That word gets bandied about too readily. Nikola Tesla, Stanley Kubrick, Richard Feynman — hell, even Richard Simmons probably had more Mensa in his big toe than EM has in this or any other lifetime.
I gate crashed a Mensa convention in a hotel I was staying at in Houston to drink their beer and steal their women. Worked too! :-)
It’s good to be smart but street smarts goes a long way. Elon could benefit with some of that mebbe but his ego gets in the way.
Natron — great story! Gave me a laugh.
I used to swap mix-tapes with a Mensa member (super-high-IQ). Nothing extraordinary about his mixes, but the depth of appreciation of the tunes I sent him seemed maybe a little preternatural. I rate acuity of the 5 senses over a tricked-out CPU any day.
But, the Elon genius has apparently called the election in favor of Trump. That’s his bet.
Right now, no wagering site is calling that bet wrong. All I’m seeing is, the Dems have blown it. There are many paragraphs that could be written as to why.
(The elephant in the room is that oversized stimulus in 2021 that resulted in the inflation rates.)
Meh, he’s just good at finding things for the cult to blame for their conditions rather than themselves. Great tactic for binary / black and white ‘thinkers’.
Now the billionaires are lining up at the trough to collect on the bribes, I mean promises, that have been made to make bank while they try to privatize all those public assets they’ve been drooling over for decades. Will see how it goes…
A petulant toddler with a genius brain = total A-Hole.
To be clear, he didn’t start Tesla, he bought it. He is the face of the company but the company is composed of brilliant engineers and workers and they produce extraordinary vehicles. (I’ve got two of them). Last count Musk has about a 13% equity stake in Tesla so he likely doesn’t care what happens to the company. The stockholders should remove him, the sooner the better.
Elon cares about free speech more than making money. As we all
should. No free speech means, we own nothing anyway. As Klaus
Schwab says, “Own nothing and be Happy.” You will have no advice to
give the serfs that own nothing.
He doesn’t care one iota about free speech when he is in China. He kowtows to the central government, to the provincial government, and to the Shanghai government, and gets $2 billion from them to build his plant. He is all for censorship, especially when unhappy Tesla customers post their stories online. He coddles up to the Cyberspace Administration of China, which is the chief internet censorship agency in China. And he coddles up to the President for Life to get more benefits. Never a word of criticism of anything, never a word about rampant censorship in China. The guy knows how to do business in China! So that’s where he stands on censorship.
LOL. I love all of the conned people who think Musk stands for free speech. People will fool themselves over the stupidest stuff.
Musk doesn’t care about free speech. Just ask China. He only cares about speech he agrees with.
I remember when the geniuses were smarter.
Now we have washed up geniuses
…I know I’m near being aged-off of the spacecraft when i can remember when the term ‘genius’ wasn’t one that was broadcast daily. (…much more concerned with the long-running conflation of the term: ‘smart’ with our much-more common mundanity of: ‘clever’…).
may we all find a better day.
Wolf, very good points.
But, He did vastly overpay for Twitter to provide a much freer platform than it was. There is still censorship on Twitter.
He sold his soul to get cash from the CCP to have his huge manufacturing plant there. He will have to comply or else.
But I do not agree that he doesn’t care about free speech.
Removing the muzzles from neo-nazis while silencing his critics doesn’t mean Musk “cares about free speech.”
It’s just switching from one standard of censorship to a different standard of censorship.
I’m sorry but he didn’t vastly overpay for Twitter because he is some kind of saint who wanted to swing open the doors of free speech, he vastly overpaid because he’s an idiot and didn’t expect his offer to be taken seriously (and then subsequently tried to get out of the deal)./
The simple answer is he cares about free speech in America so we don’t become China
“…to be able to say publicly whatever free thought goes through your head…”
Do we know other people who do that? Yes, we do. And these people belong in a loony bin.
They have yet to put you or me in the loony bin. If we get captured we can be “bin buddy’s”
Nothing says electric car like “Tesla”,
Musk-mania has died down in California…change is good…off to Texas.
He also moved the Tesla HQ from CA to TX a few years ago and 2 days ago said he would move the X and SpaceX HQs as well. The funniest part is that you can’t actually buy a Tesla in Texas directly from a Tesla store so you have to jump through hoops to get one. In some states Tesla signed deals with Native Americans to host the Tesla stores on tribal land but not sure what their workaround is in Texas.
Buying a Tesla in Texas is as simple as filling out the order sheet online (everyone does this), making the payment, and picking up the car when it’s at one of the showrooms. My Son-In-Law bought his Model Y this way a few months ago and got the car in two days.
If you want a test drive ahead of placing the order, there are numerous locations in Texas where you can schedule one. There are three locations a few miles from me in Houston.
No big deal!
Compared to me buying my Bolt, it took me a couple of months to take delivery of the Bolt after I placed the order.
How much did he pay for the Tesla out the door? Ballpark
Just curious
Model Y, end of year inventory from last year….about high $40’s (with tax and plates), not a dual motor but the cheapest model, no special paint, no FSD, etc. Plenty good. If I recall, he got it in January.
My Tesla was delivered into my driveway. Best car buying experience I ever had.
A guy in TX
Sales of EVs in the entire country have seen the same trend. I believe by some counts Tesla is no longer above 50% market share. Meanwhile most other brands have seen significant growth. In summation it seems to have caused a flat picture.
Met a guy a few days ago that just bought a Porsche EV. Very slick looking car.
Agreed. Tesla was the only game in town. I think thats what made musk feel he could walk on water. I think we can say bye to those days. Now if only the stock price would start to recognize that.
Like I would like to think it’s just political, but even my most MAGA acquaintance from engineering school bought the Ford EV. He is like the most culture war guy but still didn’t buy the Tesla.
Like his wife and him are on the news being interviewed after state elections sort of conservative family. Still bought an EV. Still went with Ford.
The Cybertruck is kind of peculiar. I like it, it stands out and is sort of brutally elegant. My wife hates it. She says it looks like the things the Soviets rolled into Prague with in 1968.
We laugh and point when we see them. It is one of the poorest and ugliest designed vehicles I’ve seen in my lifetime. The Pontiac Aztec looks incredible by comparison.
It’s definitely in the same league for attractiveness as the Aztec, no doubt! Performance , wise, though, it’s a different animal!
…had to do a double-take when I first saw one of our neighbor’s (big Tesla-everything fans/Silly-Valley CV-refugees) Cybertruck rolling along on one of our unpaved ranch roads-i first thought it was a prop-vehicle for a dystopian movie, which occasionally happens out in this neck of the woods (the great thing about our country-one person’s ‘style’ can safely be another’s belly laugh, the sentiment equal/mutual in all directions…).
may we all find a better day.
It looks like a soap-box derby car on steroids.
One of the funniest memes I have ever seen showed a Cybertruck next to a modern silver SUV in the same driveway. Underneath the picture it says PS1 graphics versus PS5 graphics.
If Elon Musk is the a**hole of a**holes…and a very transparent hypocrite. He made a lot of noise about free speech but it has become apparent that his free speech arguments extended only to racists and neonazis. Shameful journalists fawn over him because of his money, anyone with an ounce of humanity would not give him a second look.
So are you saying that he is restricting free speech for others who aren’t racists and neonazis?
I’d love to know whose speech specifically he is no restricting.
@Jeff: Yes and you can Google Twitter suspensions and Elon’s hypocrisy on free speech for more information. This has been so widely reported that I’m surprised you even brought this up.
I can’t find any suspensions that were for political reasons. If you can, please name them. I don’t really think you know what you are talking about.
It could be political, views based, social media postings, etc. But the other thing i think many expected to happen, and probably is happening, is there are many other products coming to market which will increase competition in the EV market. A number of companies now have solid offerings. I don’t drive these much so i cant compare directly, but it sure seems like a lot of the more experienced companies are bringing a lot into play now and their sales are eating up some of TESLA’s. Not just the big 3 either. I expect this will continue to increase. Tesla has some huge advantages in their vertical integration and software abilities, but they are not experienced in building cars. I reviewed a cybertruck in detail and i cant say i was impressed by the strategy or the build quality. Tesla has had a good run with little to no competition for a while, but thats changing, and its nice to see. Those who dream of 30-50% sustainable margins in the auto industry are truly dreaming. But yeah, he’s also an idiot online to his customer base. I wish i knew the breakdown of how much of a role each of these items played.
To me whatever Elon says, does not matter in terms of buying his car or any other car.
I have sat in my friend’s Tesla, and I found it to be rather uncomfortable, the backseat, especially so. The style: forget about it!
I never thought that the style of the Tesla was especially cool or avant-garde. I do you like the way it has cameras everywhere and I also find many of the Tesla features rather useful.
In terms of styling, my personal favorite are Kia and Audi. Performance wise, 200 mph at the drop of the hat does not matter one way or the other. For sure I enjoy power but when we’re talking that kind of power, I don’t know if I find it useful.
I have not priced Teslas, but I have seen the price of Hyundai and Kia cars because I bought a Hyundai Tucson hybrid in 2023.
I don’t know why people care about what Elon says when they are buying a car. That concept seems foreign to me. I just go for style, price, and what feels right. That never was a Tesla in my book.
Elon can go ahead and say things that appeal to the left, to the right, or people in the middle. I am that guy over here who just looks at the car for the car’s sake.
I will say that the Ioniq 6 has been the nicest car I’ve owned. My friend who actually tried test driving every EV didn’t like any of them until he tried the 6. Shame Americans don’t like sedans as the Ioniq 5 is the one doing numbers.
Hyundai/Kia are really just knocking it out of the park with “normal” cars that just happen to be EVs but also look like something.
Ehhh, other than that whole lying to people about the charging rate, and starting people’s Ioniq 5 and 6s on fire…their recommendation – do not park in the garage or near the house. Thanks Hyundai!
Same for all EVs, its not that they burn more than an ICE car but you can’t put an ev fire out once they start…. You then have to store the burnt out ev, 15 yards from anything, as they can start burning again on their own. The fire is a chemical reaction that doesn’t need oxygen to start.
You can look it up. EVs catch fire at far lower rates than ICE. The worst at catching fire are hybrids. Several times more than ICE which is several times more than EV. The problem with EVs is once they catch fire putting it out is a bigger problem.
…have discussed issues with fire occurrence and modern ICE-vehicle fuel injection/high-pressure gasoline-feeds in collision/poor-maintenance situations here in the past (VVNv-am guessing you’re still travelling with an extinguisher or two on-board?).
may we all find a better day.
In their defense, South Korea is really a small place. One with a large army to the north chomping at the bit to attack at any time. So just saying your manufacturing process might suffer a bit in like circumstances.
😆
With EVs the fire problem is definitely an issue. It isn’t that they start on fire more or less than an ICE vehicle. It is that they can start on fire minutes (or hours) after being left unattended. Ice vehicles do not start on fire 30 minutes after they are turned off (under normal circumstances. One can always come up with contrived circumstances). EV vehicles can and do.
Obviously I don’t want any vehicle I own to start on fire, but if one does, it is better if it does when I am there and can do something about it rather than when I am asleep 2 hours later.
I rationalize and self-sooth in a similar fashion anytime I rewatch an old Polanski or Allen flick.
bul – …that’s why I always keep my trusty copy of the Zucker’s ‘Airplane!’ handy…
may we all find a better day.
“I don’t know why people care about what Elon says when they are buying a car. I just go for style, price, and what feels right.”
Not sure if you mean feeling right physically (ie. car seats) or mentally… if mentally, that’s the point. Many ethical people don’t want to support an EV company led by a climate change denier, or support the bottom line of an individual who contributes millions to entities they believe are evil. Standing up for your beliefs feels good. People also care about the way they are seen by others and don’t want to be associated with groups that they feel lack morals/ethics.
Pretty sure the trends can be easily tied to price tags and quality. Tesla could charge a premium as the only ones in the EV pool, now the delays and service will be put to the test since they have to compete. I can get an EV Ford by going to the dealer and they have a few on the lot but I have to wait 2 months for a Tesla.
I am the type of buyer they need to expand to since I am not a Tesla fan and am not pressured into EV I will go with the best bang for buck with no friction. If I have money in hand, I expect to drive the vehicle when I spend the money.
Politics/Social causes may effect my sub $100 purchases once in awhile, but I just want a reliable vehicle at a good price. I also don’t like California so I should be jumping on the Tesla train with your logic but I still won’t buy a Tesla.
I love living in a country where we are all allowed to voice our opinions and perspectives without fear of reprisal. In these polarized and hostile times I’m grateful and would like to see the best in everyone-we are all human and I for one have many many faults. I appreciate Elon’s genius, he certainly has helped push forward this nation’s technological progress forward at warp speed. Allowing great innovation in so many different areas. For this I’m grateful.
“I appreciate Elon’s genius, he certainly has helped push forward this nation’s technological progress forward at warp speed”
Well said! I agree. Elon put EVs on the map and made them a cool and profitable mass-market product. No one else had been able to do that before him. After him came all the imitators.
Baker Electric first put EVs ‘on the map’ back in 1912 when they had almost 20% of the US automotive market up to 1916.
“In 1906, Baker made 800 cars, making them the largest electric vehicle maker in the world at the time.” Wikipedia
800 in one year 🤣
The heyday for electric cars in the US was between 1912 and 1916 and Baker sales soared from their 1906 numbers before they rather shorted out in 1916. They were actually cool cars back then and my old friend Gertrude kept hers at her House in BH next to her 300d Mercedes-Benz Adenauer into the late 1980s and use to drive it down to the BH Hotel for lunch! Jay Leno still has his Baker in his collection. They ran on 6 standard 6-volt batteries and were driving with a tiller.
The fact that it took all the other companies so long to put out any product in the space shows how bad most of them are. Reliable long lasting ICE has to be harder than EV with 3rd party batteries and motor controllers.
Really surprised me it took so long. EV friends say Tesla still kills them all in software as well (Tesla car is an ipad on wheels.)
Cheers to this!
Don’t forget – that “funding secured” stunt in 2018 cost him the Chairman of the Board position at Tesla as part of the deal they cut with the SEC. And it was a $20 million fine for Tesla and for Musk (separately) for a total of $40 million. I know, chump change, but $20 million still means something to the rest of us plebeians :)
Howdy Folks. Maybe Californians heard about his donations to the RNC?
Elon and the Gov are calling each other names currently. Don t you wish we could take all those tax payer subsidies back? I do…..
Good for Elon too, with his 50 Billion dollar payday….. What a world.
I expect him to manipulate the share price following a lousy earnings market next week with another false promise as he did when he announced the robotaxi event would be on August 8. The master of manipulating stock price with a the cult loves to drink his Kool-Aid.
That’s when Tesla hit the skids for me. It became apparent that Tesla and Elon were no longer looking to produce a mass market vehicle. I don’t know why. I assume it is because Elon looked at the numbers and can’t figure out a way to make an adequate profit per vehicle. But BYD seems to have figured it out. So maybe Elon isn’t that great a genius. Maybe his genius is in getting government funding to do things real engineers already know is possible.
Elon seems to want to run an EV taxi service because that’s where he thinks the profits are. But based on the experience of Uber and Lyft, I’m not sure he is even correct about that.
…an issue with an initially-successful ‘next big thing’ something/someone becoming convinced that their status is then ultimate and permanent…
may we all find a better day.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Musk’s biggest strength is selling the next big thing.
Something happen in Q2 2023? Without that point Tesla has a steady, slow upward trajectory.
The slope has been steeper for non-Tesla EV registrations over the last 3 and a half years. Nothing has changed.
I agree that Musk is playing a dangerous game as a CEO by being so politically out-spoken. He should probably play it safe by toeing the line. But is he too far off the mark in saying that SF and CA are poorly managed?
He is constantly fabricating bullshit, and intermingling it with some things that make sense, that’s what he doing. He needs to STFU if he wants to sell cars; or he can resign from Tesla and dissociate himself from it, and then he can say whatever he wants, without hurting Tesla.
Here is the crime data on San Francisco, for example homicides, with a homicide rate that is among the lowest of any major city in the US, despite what Musk bullshitted about it:
From San Francisco Crime Rates:
Wolf,
You can give Cultists the actual data and facts about crime rates in San Francisco and other major cities and it will all fall our of their heads the next time their Cult leader tries to scare them by playing to their fears.
Some people are not looking for information sources to inform them and better themselves. They are looking for information sources that make them feel better about their already decided opinions. It doesn’t matter if those sources lie to them. They would rather be lied to and feel good about themselves than actually be informed.
JimL,
Doing that for other cities is way too much work, and no one cares. But I do look at the homicides for Tulsa because I used to live there for so long. Tulsa’s homicide rate (homicides per 100,000 pop) over the years has been 2-3 times the rate in San Francisco.
In Tulsa, homicides averaged 70 per year over the past five years, for a population of 412,000. It was much higher when I lived there, so it has come down, and that’s good. So that’s 17.0 homicides per 100,000 pop. In San Francisco, homicides averaged 51 per year over the past 5 years, for a population of 808,000, so that’s 6.3 homicides per 100,000 pop. So for that five-year period, Tulsa’s rate is 2.7 times the SF rate. In percentage terms, Tulsa’s rate is 170% higher than SF’s.
But it’s a lot of work. I have to go find the police department data and population data and calculate this by hand, for each city, and that’s way too much work to do. People can believe whatever they want. I’m fine with that. People don’t read and don’t accept data that demolishes their beliefs anyway. They cling to their beliefs, no matter what, and it’s not my job to change that. I just refuse to give them a platform where they can spread their BS; and that IS my job.
“…self-deception is the root of all evil…”
-rob’t. a. heinlein
may we all find a better day.
Wolf,
I understand, but the facts all say the same thing. You are more likely to die living in a place like Mississippi or Louisiana than you are in places like Chicago, San Francisco, NY, etc.
But if you listened to certain “news” outlets of a particular political persuasion, they would make you think otherwise.
Many people want to have their views reinforced, they do not want to be educated.
I was born and raised in Chicago. Like you in San Francisco, I find the stories of rampant crime to be one more of perception than reality. It is unfortunate, but lots of people’s views are shaped by the information sources they choose rather than actual real facts.
Wolf used to be the go to guy for financial understanding. Looks as though he’s spiraling down a rabbit hole. Bye, Wolf, it’s been good up until this tantrum.
Adios.
Goodby bill, say hello to the family.
But I must say this article does bring out the crowd. The way it was written….
Brings out the passion, but at the same time, the authors need to stay up at night to delete overly passionate comments.
I’m sure you are not going anywhere.
I thought it was hilarious and spot on!
“He is constantly fabricating bullshit, and intermingling it with some things that make sense, that’s what he doing.”
Well spoken. That’s exactly the modus operandi of the political extremists these days. I believe that’s one of the major tenants of propaganda production as well.
The Wire 2, San Fran.
“We got so many bodies this week!”
Lol JK
Tesla is Elon Musk. He’s effectively a human owner of the company. That is why institutionally owned companies can’t compete with Tesla in the EV space. If Elon left Tesla the stock price would be cut in half pretty quickly.
He should only STFU if he wants to. He’s a human being not an artificial intelligence.
There are some indications that he is growing tired of the EV game. Perhaps he recognizes that the US can’t compete with China in batteries. On the other hand, there have been some hopeful reports very recently that Gen 3 of 4680 will be entering production soon with dry electrode and altered chemistry involving manganese that will finally get energy density on 4680 to the level promised a few years ago.
If EV’s have a future beyond urban commute cars – I think they do – it will require continued progress in batteries, software and charging network. The only American company willing to make those investments is Tesla and that is only because the company is owned (effectively) by a human being with a vision that is not just a marketing slogan.
When/if Elon leaves Tesla, within a few years, Tesla will no longer be willing to make those bets and will become Boeing or GM or Ford.
I also would not write off Twitter/X. Maybe he overpaid but he has some interesting ideas for it’s future. Or maybe not and it will all crash and burn.
As a former resident and frequent visitor to SF (two adult children live there), the crime problem is SF isn’t homicide, it’s one of the safest large cities in the US from that standpoint.
The problem is petty crime, particularly car break ins and shoplifting, and the combination of addicts and schizophrenics who are homeless and using the streets as a public restroom, especially around Civic Center. And what they call “sideshows”, which are basically large scale middle of the night things where a few hundred people take over an intersection and spin high speed donuts until the cops show up, which seems to take more than an hour. Somehow SFPD doesn’t seem to be able to get a handle on this, as in, they almost never make any arrests, when anyone with even an ounce of brains could lay down some puncture devices around the intersection and basically impound all the cars. NYC does this with the obnoxious dirt bike riders there, it’s not rocket science…
The car break-ins are WAY down from 2017 and 2018. We live in the touristy area that is heavily targeted by these break-ins because tourists park their cars with all their stuff in them, and with laptops on the passenger seat, etc. Walking around this part of the city for miles every day, I see the signs that document a break-in: broken glass on the sidewalk. This was horrible in 2017 and 2018. I would do counts of broken glass per block, that was my gauge. Every block had a few counts of broken glass, sometimes a dozen. It was like every car that had anything in it got broken into. It was horrible.
It was even a big topic in the local elections in 2017-2018. People were upset. But the City finally started to crack down – and that started before the pandemic (there were few break-ins during the pandemic because the tourists were gone and there were no cars with stuff in them).
Now, I only see broken glass every now and then. Last night we walked to dinner, about 1.5 miles one way, 3 miles roundtrip. We took a slightly different route back with only some overlap. We saw only one broken-glass count. There used to be dozens.
So this is organized crime. The thieves hand the merchandise to a fencing operation that sells this stuff on eBay etc.
As part of the crackdown, the police do stake-outs, and they go after the entire organization. One of the stakeouts led to a car-chase that ended in the intersection in front of our place with a collision. The guy jumped out and ran, and seconds later, there were half a dozen police cars screeching to a halt from all directions, and cops jumped out, guns drawn. Other drivers pointed out where the guy was hiding in a doorway, and they arrested him. Then they unloaded the evidence in his car and spread it out on the sidewalk to photograph: A big camera, a couple of laptops, a purse with a wallet next to it, stuff like that.
Every car break-in is one too many. But now there are far fewer than there used to be. And that’s a really good thing.
They have done a similar thing with organized retail theft (the big events of shoplifting that you saw videos of), including stakeouts and going after the fencing operations. Organized retail theft triggers a slew of serious felony charges. The guy that cleaned out some shelves ”with impunity” at a Walgreens on video that went viral spent over a year in jail. The police track down the warehouses and the people behind this stuff. They’re all getting charged with felonies. But you can never see that in the videos that go viral with the word “impunity.” So these events of shoplifting are also way down (not zero, but way down).
Following the Supreme Court decision, the city is no longer blocked by courts from clearing homeless camps. This was an issue for years: an appeals court’s decision blocked cities from clearing out the homeless camps. So that SCOTUS decisions just happened a week ago or so. But mayor Breed has already announced “aggressive” sweeps of these homeless camps to start in August. People have had enough.
You need to update your knowledge a little bit.
Still the best large city in the US though, it’s just disappointing that the city cannot get its act together on these quality of life crimes.
This is nonsense. See my comment just above in reply to your other comment.
And now give the statistics for property crimes…
Click on the link I gave you above. They’re all there, by category, including burglaries, larceny, thefts, and auto thefts.
OK, to save you from having to scroll back up, here is the link again. But you gotta click on it to see the charts:
San Francisco Crime Rates:
My favorite Tesla bumper sticker:
I bought before I knew he was crazy….
I wish thus site had the reccomend post feature…..
I would venture California needs him more than he needs them.
A few tens of billions one way or the other – so what.
Tesla (not Musk) needs California, that’s where 15% of Tesla’s global sales were a year ago. That’s what this article is about.
So are you saying that people in California will not buy Teslas, because
they are made in Texas. Just a guess, it will be way cheaper to make
Teslas in Texas. There will be billions of tons less red tape than in
centrally planned California.
JD,
“So are you saying that people in California will not buy Teslas, because they are made in Texas.”
🤣 I think you need to read the article to find out what I’m saying.
No, that’s not AT ALL what I’m saying. NOT AT ALL. It doesn’t matter where they’re made. All Cybertrucks are made in Texas, no problem. Some of the Model Ys sold in California may also be made in Texas. It doesn’t matter where they’re made, people don’t even know. They could look up which plant manufactured the vehicle, but they don’t care. Tesla is doing just fine manufacturing cars profitably at the old Fremont plant in CA. Sure, a brand-new plant, designed from scratch for Tesla production, would be better, such as Tesla’s other plants in Shanghai, Texas, and Germany.
What I AM saying is that 15% of Tesla’s global deliveries are in CA, and if that goes down by a quarter, which they did, Tesla’s global deliveries take a big hit – and they took a big hit. So Tesla needs the SALES in CA. That’s 15% of its global business in units, and more than 15% in dollars because the average price of Teslas sold in CA is higher than the average price of Teslas sold in China.
Why does California need him? They have other people they can give all sorts of tax breaks to.
California is the 5th largest economy in the world. Last I heard.
Japan is working overtime just to edge them out.
I doubt any other state can claim the same.
Heck I think texas is one whole Trillion away.
Oh just to follow up…
Texas is home to a business called CrowdStrike.
You know the one who caused the largest tech disturbance to the world economy in history?
They sure do it better down there… 😦
So Crowdstrike is in Texas. Is your argument that since
Crowdstrike is in Texas Tesla is shouldn’t move there, because
California and Good Old Gavin is better. Last I checked, less
regulation and lower costs matter for a business.
Wages are lower in Texas. So yes, lower costs for companies, lower pay for workers.
Median household income:
TX: $72,284
CA: $91,551
San Francisco, CA: $135,366
Fremont, CA: $162,336
Tesla’s plant is in Fremont.
Look for Tesla to join Wolf’s list of imploded stocks. This should be fun to watch
There are few people in the world that can say whatever they want, to anyone they want, without worrying about its impact on their personal financial situation. Musk is certainly entertaining himself, and no matter what it costs him, he will have plenty left. The California coasties have done their part for his success, sustaining him for 100% of his sales down to 15%. They call fall into the sea now for all he cares.
Also, Tesla went through a model changeover on the 3. I would imagine it was tough — especially given its Tesla, and that factory is a completely overloaded mess. (I have there recently, and also when it was Nummi.)
By the way, the result of the changeover—the new Model 3 (Highland)—is the best Tesla I have ever driven. And I have driven them all. The fact that you can buy one for $40K+ makes it perhaps the best electric vehicle for the money now in the U.S.
I actually disagree with the idea that there are many who cannot afford to say whatever they want. There are plenty who literally have nothing to lose.
Poor California – still thinks it matters!
If Tesla went poof, he is still worth billions. Or perhaps he knows the East will own the EV market in the near future!
CA’s economy is bigger than most countries. #4 last I checked and bigger than nearly all the red states combined. That’s why CA matters.
LOL. You need better sources of information that don’t take advantage of you.
Bear Hunter,
California may not matter to Musk that much, but it matters to Tesla, because about 14% of Tesla’s global deliveries were in CA last year! And it’s mattering right now, with the stock being down 40%+ from the high in November 2021.
“If Tesla went poof, he is still worth billions.”
Maybe, and then he’d just be a run-of-the-mill billionaire, not the richest man in the world. He pledged some of his Tesla stock for loans to buy Twitter. If Tesla stock goes “poof,” he is going to get a gigantic margin call. And X isn’t worth the $44 billion he and others paid for it. So his huge wealth is tied to Tesla, and Tesla’s revenues are in part tied to CA.
A lot of very wealthy Americans took the tax advice of taking out loans against their equity holdings instead of cashing out some of their shares. This is great during a bull market, but when the bear hits it could turn out to be disaster, and Musk is especially exposed given the ridiculous valuation of his company vs. reality and the scale of his loans.
Those bank haircuts on the collateral share values and rapid moves to liquidate the collateral may come as a very big shock to some of those rich people, who could become poor very suddenly. Up until now they have been rescued by the US State (including with their uninsured deposits at Silicon Valley Bank), so they have very little real risk awareness.
Surely everybody can agree that Elon has not been a good fiduciary for Tesla and its other investors over the last couple years.
California is the largest state economy in the US and is the 4th largest economy in the world and it matters more than ever.
don’t forget his super train from SF to LA.
All 150 feet of it at ten quadrillion per foot.
Being that Matt Groening and Elon Musk both have family ties that extend back to the tiny Saskatchewan mennonite community of Herbert, it makes a lot more sense if we just consider Elon as the Metro-sexual update of Homer Simpson.
Viewed this way, Elon’s actions are a lot more understandable
Starting to see those Cyber Trucks on a near daily basis in Seattle. It’s an eye sore without any responsible purpose.
Seeing several used CyberTrucks on Craigslist already. Buyers remorse after only 500-1000 miles?
“Tesla flipping.” Been done for years. It used to be very profitable, $10,000 to $20,000 a pop, when there were long waiting lists. But then came the inventory and price cuts of the Y/3. So flipping them is over.
But there’s a long waiting list for Cybertrucks, so early buyers are trying to flip them at a profit. But I have heard anecdotally that some Cybertruck flippers have lost money, not sure if that’s true on average.
Hmmm, I thought Tesla sued them if they flipped a CyberTruck…
randall hooker
There was a clause in the early versions of the sales contract for the Cybertruck that threatened to sue buyers for $50,000 or more if they resell the vehicle within 12 months. But Tesla then quietly removed that clause in the next version of the sales contract, and it hasn’t sued anyone.
But it has started barring flippers from future purchases, if it finds out about the flip. So you can flip once, and then you cannot buy another Cybertruck.
I was on holiday recently, and I got my first-ever glance at a Cyber Truck.
Good grief. That thing is the ugliest vehicle I have ever seen.
It is a stainless steel refrigerator with wheels.
Elon has done more to promote a cause of the Left than anyone I know. Shouldn’t we be judged on our actions rather than our words? He should be a hero to the Left, whether you like his politics or not.
Electric motors have nothing to do with left or right. It’s a propulsion method that has been around since the 1800s. But Musk made EVs a cool, functional, profitable mass-produced product, and no one else was able to do that before him. He force-kicked the whole entire global auto industry out of their slumber. Now they’re all doing it. Drive an EV and see for yourself if it has anything to do with politics. And price cuts by Tesla are hugely important — price cuts is what consumers need the most.
Government mandates and subsidies throughout the West for EV and EV charging stations are not central planning? Oh my.
B
There are subsidies on everything. The biggest richest chipmakers are getting huge amounts:
“The government is expected to award Intel $23 billion in subsidies, plus Intel expects to claim another $25 billion in Investment Tax Credits in order to invest $100 billion over five years in chip making capacity, research and development, and advanced packaging projects in the US, according to a slew of announcements today.”
https://wolfstreet.com/2024/03/20/intel-to-get-23-billion-in-government-grants-loans-plus-25-billion-investment-tax-credits-to-invest-100-billion-in-the-us-after-wasting-94-billion-on-share-buybacks-in-15-years/
All of these subsidies are stupid:
https://wolfstreet.com/2021/09/13/democrats-proposed-ev-incentives-are-braindead-economic-policy-and-last-thing-the-booming-ev-industry-ev-hungry-consumers-need/
But they have been going on forever. Landlords get more tax subsidies than just about anyone.
@B: You seem to conveniently ignore all the subsidies from the Federal government under both administrations for the oil industry, farming, and grants from a whole lot of agencies to a wide range of tech companies.
The oil industry has been raking in subsidies with strong support from Republicans in spite of being hugely profitable for the last 100+ years.
When you have to effect a positive change away from fossil fuel which cause enormous amount of pollution and health issues let alone climate change, how is a nascent industry going to even have a chance of establishing itself against the huge monopolistic oil companies (which have hidden research data showing climate change effects for the last 50+ years)?
Going back to EVs, even with subsidies for EVs, China is far ahead of us. And the Chinese car companies are at our back door building plants in Mexico. They will figure out a way to get in with NAFTA. Do we just give up and let our auto industry die?
The truth is – we have enormous competition in major industries from countries that are centrally planned. We have no option but to respond in every fashion to keep our industries and companies viable.
You are getting the relationship backwards. Musk took advantage of the left. He gladly took their EV subsidies. That is gradually ending.
Now he has found an easier bunch of idiots to take advantage of.
Bet against Elon at your peril!
Hold my beer while I turn on reruns of Silicon Valley on HBO…
Ahhh Aviato! Lol
Lots of Rivians in SoCal.
That cyber truck is a joke; every time you see one, you just know it’s someone trying way too hard.
And the videos from Tahoe where it can’t get through a few inches of snow are always amusing.
I was behind one going up 431. Maybe needed a charge but not going more than 25 mph. No snow though.
CyberTrucks are a Halo product.
Gets Tesla tons of press and media squawk.
Stick your finger in someone’s eye in public and you’ll get coverage.
Essentially that is the purpose of the “truck”.
In that, Elon is not dumb or crazy.
My grandfather always said: don’t mix business and politics.
so the Michael Jordan shoe argument:
Or something like , yes we could live in a better world, more secure and perfect. But am I willing to take that chance when I could be poorer for it?
The take the 💰 argument AKA corruption
Also:
Steal today for Tomorrow one can be forgiven by being charitable.
Or they realized that most Tesla models are ugly blobs.
It seems this has less to do with Musks “bullshit” and more to do with market saturation.
In terms of sales, each Tesla model ranks high in CA in their category. And the Model Y is #1 overall. But Tesla’s overall market share of total sales is only 11%. Toyota is at 17%. And in terms of the existing fleet, Tesla still has only a tiny share. It will take many years before those people replace their vehicles with a new vehicle (of whatever type), and they will be buying every day year after year to replace their old vehicles. So in terms of the existing fleet, Tesla is a long ways away from any kind of “saturation.”
But there is lots of competition from EVs and ICE vehicles, so it’s not easy now to gain market share; and in this situation of tough competition, screw-ups make a big difference and exact a big price.
R&T: Donald Trump Wants to End Federal Support for EVs on ‘Day One’
Donald Trump Wants to End Federal Support for EVs on ‘Day One’
“I will end the Electric Vehicle Mandate on Day One — thereby saving the U.S. auto industry from complete obliteration, and saving U.S. customers thousands of dollars per car,” Trump said in his address in Milwaukee on Thursday.
Elon Musk is now one of Trump’s biggest financial supporters.
Most Model 3 versions don’t qualify for the rebates.
But I agree, those tax rebates are braindead. And I have been saying that for years ever since they first started talking about them in 2021:
https://wolfstreet.com/2021/09/13/democrats-proposed-ev-incentives-are-braindead-economic-policy-and-last-thing-the-booming-ev-industry-ev-hungry-consumers-need/
Well it looks like Musk’s new friend Donald Trump will can those subsidies on day 1 AND welcome Chinese manufacturers setting up shop in China. Utterly toxic for Tesla.
Biden did Musk a solid with the 100% tariffs, as it delayed the entry of the very competitive Geely-Volvo EX30 (the much bigger EX90 is made in the Charleston US plant) into the US until 2025, as Geely has to move production from China to Belgium to escape the tariffs.
@SoCalBeachDude: Ending Federal Support for EV’s on “Day One” is the surest way to let our auto industry die.
The Chinese auto and battery companies are far ahead of us. The amount of research going into solid state battery technologies across the world is gigantic. The world will figure out how to make EVs significantly better than where they are right now. And then where will we be? Churning out ICE cars which no one would want to buy?
I read that BYD is already building or has plans to build a plant in Mexico, The other Chinese auto companies may not be far behind. Do you think they are not going to use the NAFTA rules to get to the American market?
Putting tariffs and trying to stem the tide will not work. We will fall further and further behind and it will be too late by then.
Sometimes subsidies don’t accomplish much. And subsidies do get mis-spent by companies that receive them. But as far as industries of the future (where we are competing against centrally-planned economies like China) are concerned, we have no choice but to try our level best to keep our companies at the forefront.
If the US car industry can be saved without paying people $7,500 to buy a car, when our country is more than $30 trillion in debt, then we should probably let it die. I for one am fully confident that the end of the subsidies won’t mean the end of making vehicles in the US.
Tesla sales are going down for a simple reason. Everyone is waiting for refreshed model Y (project Juniper). The refreshed model 3 is not selling that well because it is not eligible for the $7500 tax credit but model Y is. So those who want to buy a Tesla now are buying model Y. Those who can afford to wait are waiting for refreshed model Y.
That is real cope, the reality is that there are more and more competitive EVs coming out in the US – especially from the South Koreans and Europeans. Tesla is not being beaten by one single competitor, but a swarm of them. Also, there is the move to PHEVs which Tesla does not sell.
In China, Tesla has y-o-y falling sales while the overall EV market is growing at 30%. Even with very expensive incentives (e.g. 5 year zero percent loans) Tesla is losing market share.
In Europe, the Model 3 has been hit with the EU anti-China tariffs and Model Y (made in Berlin) sales have been falling since Q2 2023 (a slight bounce in Q1 2024 then a renewed fall in Q2)
Yeah, and the South Koreans’ vehicles will start being eligible for the tax credit later this year or early next year when manufacturing starts up in Georgia.
It sure is strange how a businessman as smart as Musk doesn’t seem to have enough sense to stay out of politics. He’s very self destructive.
And when you have too much money and you get bored
I tend to believe that most people think intelligence in one domain automatically extends to all others. That’s incredibly wrong. I was a standout software engineer in a large software engineering firm. So much so that the higher-ups believed I should manage all of my co-workers. I was the dumbest manager you’d ever meet.
Love your vulnerability. We should all be such
Kent,
I really wish more people were more self aware as you are. There are numerous examples of people who are excellent in one very specific role but completely incompetent in an adjacent role.
Like Shark Tank’s Mark Cuban, or Warren Buffet, or Jamie Dimon, or …? They all
talk their book.
Tesla was the early innovator in EV’s .
It no surprise that the field catches up with them. Feel free to boycott and
knock his move to Texas but don’t act
surprised or hurt.
Amazing in this day and age that someone cannot tell the difference between Musk and Buffett, Cuban, or even Dimon.
It is obvious that you get your information from sources that take advantage of you, but I can easily find 10 instances of where Buffett did the opposite of talk up his book. If you even had an ounce of a clue about Buffett you would realiz6he regularly wants to do the opposite of talk up his book. He would rather companies he owns get cheaper so he can buy them.
Crazy.
He’s such an interesting person. The most proliferative and innovative entrepreneur in the history of mankind, but at the same time a person with no self-discipline when it comes to using drugs and controlling his mouth.
While I do agree that Musk’s political idiocy is hurting Tesla’s sales to some degree, I also think there are other factors as well. I think the poor quality in Tesla manufacturing has caught up with them. When they were the only real EV manufacturer in the game, the fact that it was an EV and the computer control were difference makers. It didn’t matter if the door seams didn’t match up properly or there was duct tape holding cables down under the trunk mat.
Now that there are a bunch of other manufacturers offering EV driving with fancy computer controls, the quality of product matters.
Finally, Tesla hasn’t refreshed their lineup in forever. Their cars look the same as they did years ago. Besides, it wasn’t like the original designs were exactly head turners.
Complacency with being an industry leader caught up with Tesla.
For some strange reason, I am reminded of the Saturn. Another car line that didn’t update its look.
Just look at the extremely successful Toyota Camry models over two decades.
Toyota tundra literally no change for 14 years
That is because no one ever bought a Camry for it’s looks. Cost and reliability were why Camrys were successful. People spending the amount of money they do on Teslas are doing g it for more than just cost.
It makes sense for an innovator to jettison some social norms and chafe under (and push against) some existing laws. Then again, there is a child who learns no constraints, and keeps testing the envelope to destruction. Many billionaires at this moment are throwing their egos around in ways testing that. People who position themselves in the crux of constant volatility sooner or later tend to bounce on the downside of that, which if volatile enough is below zero.
There is definitely an alternate universe where Musk was either fired, or self destructed at PayPal and never heard of again.
“ Microsoft, confirmed on X that a CrowdStrike update was to blame for Friday’s outage, adding that Microsoft was providing “customers [with] technical guidance and support to safely bring their systems back online.”
Musk replied to the statement, saying: “This gave a seizure to the automotive supply chain.”
This will be fun in future earnings reports for EVs and from airlines to zoos
Musk had CrowdStrike removed from all of its servers.
Californians are early adopters. That market is largely tapped out today in the EV space.
My take has more to do with the fact that there are a lot more viable alternatives to Tesla now, and, “the herd” is more likely to buy an expensive luxo car from an established automaker like BMW, Audi, MB.
True, happens in tech too. I remember Compaq was all that especially coming out with sub $1000 PC. A new and better engine design or simply a packed field could easily spell the end of Tesla in the long run. Europe will get quality Japanese EVs as well, something unlikely to happen in US.
Oops, Chinese!
Of late I have found myself envying the hunter-gatherers. They own so little.
medial-…in terms of ‘hunter-gatherers’, the belief in a limitless-supply human ‘ownership’ of planetary resources makes me posit we are all there already, our vision clouded by the primacy of our ingeniously (or not) human-designed economic/management systems that provide precious-little actual reinvestment in maintaining those resources…
may we all find a better day.
I’ve never understood why any business takes sides in politics, immediately alienating half of their potential customer base. There are local ones near me that do that and I stopped using them. So dumb.
As for Tesla, I think it’s market saturation. Their target customer is early adopters who are happy to disregard mediocre quality for cool and new. It’s no longer cool and new and there are now much better quality options. Musk is a visionary, then he gets bored and moves on to the next vision.
I’ve a cybertruck on reserve that I am canceling. I turned my Tesla X in. A friend just texted that she dumped her Tesla stock. All because of Musks Transphobia. I won’t buy Tesla again even if musk leaves.
Kudos to you. Trans people—and those in the process—are now the most vilified people in the country, especially since the GOP has been forced to accept that their long war against gay people has been lost.
And younger trans people in particular have to be among the most emotionally fragile people in the country. They certainly don’t need or seek this attention.
The Republican Party has long had a gay group in its Party which goes by the name of the ‘Log Cabin Republicans’ and Melania Trump is a big supporter of that rather large group now.
Yes, the Log Cabin Republicans are a long-standing group. They are mostly from the upper class, and are basically a subset of gay men who are anti-feminist. There a lot of them.
“Rather large group”
Huh? You haven’t been paying attention. The Log Cabin Republicans make up a very small part of the Republican party. The are competing with “Blacks for Trump” to be the most irrelevant window dressing in the Republican party.
Three of my children own Teslas. They have vowed to never buy another Tesla ever again. As for California vs Texas, my daughter lives in Texas but works as a travel nurse in California. She says California is the best place for a nurse to work. Texas is terrible.
“Three of my children own Teslas. They have vowed to never buy another one again.” Absolutely hilarious and pretty much says everything you need to know about Teslas.
Not Teslas but Musk.
Look up. EV is old news with small sales, small market, and lots of choices.
Just got Starlink and it is the best thing ever. Space and AI is where we are going.
Just posted on x that Elon needs to offer free one way bus tickets to California for the homeless!
“…one way bus tickets to California for the homeless!”
That has been done for years. It’s just about routine.
Bear – so a lot of these places lack the domestic smarts/gumption to roll up their own sleeves and show them uppity Californians how to properly deal with their own homeless issues other than by exporting their problem? (…kinda like the U.S. ‘cleaning up’ it’s historic ‘industrial pollution’ by effectively exporting a lot of that industry to the PRC, and not resolving to solve the issue at home…).
may we all find a better day.
Another comment that deserves the love of a reccomend button.
From July 2023, WSR:
“ But this “base effect” will begin to become less favorable and then unfavorable in the second half of 2023, and will become one of the headwinds for the year-over-year readings later this year.”
So, like where is the base effect heading into the second half of 2024?
How would you like to work for him….his company…and then have to go home and look in the mirror? I’ve had to work for several jerks and bad employers in my life, but if you mind your finances you can get choosy, even quit or retire. He is a union busting jerk out for himself and proud of it. His support of certain politicians and views says it all as they are the same animal. Good riddance…keep going.
This guy is a danger to the human race. He has joined the exclusive list of word’s psychopaths years ago.
One thing for sure, he likes fathering children. He has that down pat.
Paul S – probably easier when one’s mirror is the same manufacture as the one in Disney’s ‘Snow White and the Seven Dwarves’…
may we all find a better day.
Now it all makes sense! I understand Wolf, finally. For the longest time I thought he believed the data he pulls from. But, now I know why he uses that data.
Musk is an evil pos.
Thank you for the article.
Musk is a rogue genius, and the more outrageous he is, the more his personal “brand” gains in popularity. Henry Ford supported Hitler, and FoMoCo wasn’t damaged at all. I would guess that Elon’s support for Trump will not only be forgiven by liberals, but will make Elon appear that much more of a brave outlier.
People are fine with CEOs supporting and endorsing candidates. They’re fine with CEOs making campaign contributions. They’re fine with CEOs lobbying for bigger handouts. It’s just kind of a normal part of the system.
What they’re not fine with is a CEO constantly spreading ignorant bullshit and lies about their state, their city, and about people they love and care for. When that happens, after a while, they’ve had it, and they’re not buying that product anymore, especially if it’s a high-profile product with lots of competitors. It’s not complicated.
…so well-said. Wolf (and the real and virtual-world bands play on…).
may we all find a better day.
May we all find a better day?
I say again, if I wait for a better day I’ll be missing out on this fine day.
But could it be… “May we all find a better woman?.
But looking past all that…always looking for something better.
“May we all find a better EV”.
HT – if one prefers to wait, you MIGHT be missing out, but of course, you aren’t. Best to you, and those around you…and, again-
may we all find a better day.
Apparently old lithium ion batteries like teslas have a ton of polluting forever chemicals in them.
So best to find a way to recycle this chemistry in the batteries.
We shouldn’t be surprised at Musk’s actions. Great Industrialists though out American history have had outsized and controversial opinions on politics, labor and their local economy. Henry Ford was very controversial from trying to control the behavior of his workers wife’s to his early support of Hitler. Carnegie, and Rockefeller made Musk look like a food cart owner when it came to throwing around their political and economic weight to shape the world the way they wanted.
Some of the industrial Giants were able to shape their surroundings in a way that mirrored their beliefs like the Coors in Golden and The Johnsons in Rachine . But California was too big to turn in to his own personal fiefdom the way JR Simple did to Boise. So he picked up his toys and stomped off.
With all the Californians moving to the great state of Texas, Musk may have a problem here in the future….also the state of Texas. (LOL)
I wrote on this site a long time ago that it is only a matter of time before the other car makers catch up to Tesla but people kept saying that Tesla has some kind of magical leap over any other car maker that could never be bridged. Yeah, rrright.
Tesla’s biggest competitor is Hyundai/Kia and their vehicles are supposed to start being eligible for the Federal EV tax credit later this year or early next year when manufacturing starts up in Georgia. That does not bode well for Tesla either.
Many insurance companies won’t even insure Hyundai / Kias as they are stolen in record numbers and that includes State Farm and Progressive, so people may be able to buy them but can’t drive them on the road.
Irrelevant. This issue only applies to certain historical Hyundai/Kia models – those that did not include an engine immobilizer anti-theft component. Since 2022 all of their vehicles have one.
This may have been fixed in 2022, but is not irrelevant at all as it affects hundreds of thousands of cars prior to 2016:
DM: Minnesota woman is denied car insurance by State Farm because of critical design error in the make and model of her car
A Minnesota woman has revealed how multiple car insurers have denied her coverage – because of the specific make and model of her vehicle.
State Farm and Progressive both told Erin Walters they won’t offer her insurance on her 2019 blue Hyundai because of ‘high theft rates’ associated with the car.
Thieves target the model due to its lack of an immobilization system, which makes it easy to steal.
Then, there are countless other issues affecting Hyundia / Kia models…
DM: Hyundai announces mass recall impacting five popular models amid fears vehicles could stop suddenly or roll away while in park
Nearly 67,000 Hyundai vehicles in the United States have been recalled over issues involving fuel pump failure and software errors.
Do you know why they are stolen in record numbers?
Hint, it has to do with their sales popularity…..
It’ll be interesting to see Musk’s genius play out as sales continue slowing in America — and then more EV dumping by china around the world.
He’s had a great period of ego building, but seems like humiliation lies ahead.
When enough time passes, he’ll be a forgotten novelty:
“ Later reviews have been harsher. In 2017, Time included the DeLorean in its list of the 50 worst cars of all time.[50] In his book Naff Motors: 101 Automotive Lemons, Tony Davis described the build quality as “woeful”.[51] Top Gear writer Richard Porter included it in his book Crap Cars, calling it “dismal”.[52]”
“like humiliation lies ahead” that will make him more dangerous. He only thinks about himself. He has the means, and is smart in some ways. Who/what is going to stop him?
Awful products.
Yeah, Musk turned off the EV Californians. He picked up stakes in Tesla, and now SpaceX and adios California. Not that his cars are bad, just his politics.
His cars aren’t just bad, they’re horrifically awful in every respect.
Lots of people that actually own them and drive them every day would disagree.
Nonsense. Many people like Tesla vehicles.
Only people who know nothing or practically nothing about decent and excellent cars such as BMW.
Good article! I bought my 2018 M3 LR over three years ago used. It still runs great with 60K miles and when I charge my battery I get 300 miles verses 310 new. Back then the Chinese said Tesla was five years ahead of the competition. They let Tesla into China to copy their manufacturing techniques. The only competition when I bought was the Chevy Bolt and Nisson Leaf. Both turned out to be junk. The Bolt kept exploding and had to be kept outside. The leaf had a poorly cooled battery that failed prematurely. VW just invested billions in Rivian to get access to their operating systems after years of trying. We will see how the new EVs are doing when they have been on the road a few years, including BYD,
What is a 2018 M3 LR? Apparently not a F80 M3 BMW…
I am sure that Elon Musk’s comments are going over like a lead balloon in San Francisco and California. But I think Wolf is probably reading too much into those comments since he lives in both places and hears the complaints about them.
To me the most pertinent sentence of this report is, “Some versions of the Model 3 don’t qualify for the federal rebates due the China-sourced batteries.”
There is a LOT to unpack in that sentence and I wish we had the sales data to pull on that thread further. We are well past the time (particularly in California) when Teslas were mostly being purchased by “Early Adopters” for whom price was not a concern. $7500 in government subsidies is a lot of money to walk away from for most car buyers in California/America. Plus they NOW have more options to look at from other car companies (thanks to Tesla’s success). It seems to me THAT is probably having a bigger impact on Tesla sales than whatever comes out of Elon Musk’s mouth.
Of course, maybe Musk is just being smarter than the average bear here and talking conservative trash now that he is trying to grow sales in Red states. Maybe he thinks his market growth in California is already capped. He has certainly defeated Tesla’s naysayers up until now.
But to me Musk just reminds me of Atlanta billionaire Ted Turner… a “visionary” so reliably liberal that he was actually married to Jane Fonda at one point. But who also would show up at dinner parties dressed in a full Confederate officer’s uniform! Most billionaires are bland as egg whites… but there are a few of them who are rich enough that they think controversy HELPS them. There was no end of criticism of Ted Turner in the South… but most Southerners just rolled their eyes at his antics and kept watching CNN and rooting for the Braves.
Model Y registrations: -15% yoy (-6,482 vehicles). All of them qualify for the tax incentives.
That down-swing reversed the explosive growth before. The Model Y went from booming sales to sharply falling sales. It’s the swing from boom to sharp decline that you need to look at. Something is seriously wrong!
Okay… thanks for the update Wolf! We can do a little bit with those figures.
If Model Y registrations are down by 15% (-6482 units) then that means that the previous year’s Model Y registrations were 43,213 if I did the math right. And Tesla’s total decline is “-24% year-over-year, to 52,211 vehicles” (from the article).
In that case it seems to me that most of the decline is in the Model 3’s that may or may not be eligible for a subsidy if I am reading one of your previous responses correctly.
Granted that it is hard to know why any consumer does anything. But I think the numbers may have provided evidence that this is related to the subsidies more than anything else. That said, the Model Y numbers are NOT good news for Elon Musk. I don’t know too many businesses that can take a 15% hit to sales for very long and remain solvent. Couple that with the fact that other car manufacturers are no longer paying him for carbon credits (they have their own EVs for sale) and he may need to put a filter on his big mouth.
With that said, it is interesting to ponder if Ted Turner’s experience might be foreshadowing here. We all remember the botched merger with AOL in 2000… but what most forget is that CNN had a successful merger with Time-Warner in 1996. You yourself have said in the past that Tesla’s market cap is too large for Tesla to be “bought out” by another car manufacturer. But I wonder if a “merger” can be arranged. As we saw with Ted Turner in the 80s and 90s, eventually “visionaries” get bored with their creation and want to move on to other worlds to conquer.
Elon Musk first became CEO of Tesla in 2008… meaning that he has had that role for 16 years now… about the same number of years that Turner helmed CNN before the Time-Warner merger. One reason for Musk running his mouth may be because he doesn’t plan to be there much longer.
Imagine people deciding to uy an EV and the type of EV because of politics. I assume they choose their life partners like that as well. And divorce more than others. Terrible way of living.
Weird comment.
It is almost like you don’t think values matter in the way you live your life.
cresus – referring to another back’n forth in these comments, I’m a bit surprised you didn’t include ‘beer’ beside ‘EV’, as well…
may we all find a better day.
Tesla is seriously struggling at the moment:
After eight years of development work, the Tesla Semi still isn’t in production. As far as I can tell, Tesla delivered roughly 100 hand-built units to Pepsi and then ceased production. Not sure anybody believes the current 2025 production date….it’s about the sixth date Tesla has announced.
The second-gen Tesla Roadster is five years overdue and counting. (Originally announced in 2017!)
Cybertruck started production four years later than promised and at a price tag 50% higher than originally announced.
Both the Model S and the Model X are now geriatric designs by car-industry standards and sales are down over 90%. (Model S sold 16K units in 2023 vs 176K in 2022).
The relocation of the Tesla headquarters to Texas was interesting: Originally Tesla announced in 2021 that ALL HQ staff in California would be moving to Texas. The company then quietly kept the original HQ building in Palo Alto open and officially relocated the “Engineering HQ” back to Palo Alto in 2023. Strong implication here was that most of the Tesla engineers refused to move and Tesla wasn’t able to replace them with people in Texas. I doubt all this helped Tesla get their new designs done.
Wolf really ruffled the feathers of the petrol surrogates with this article.
“But EVs have subsidies!” …And oil & gas don’t?
It’s very telling when people take a shot at EVs, while ignoring the greater flaws of ICE, which made EVs popular in the first place!
This naked bias makes you think these people are clutching to oil & gas/ICE for some other reason. Nostalgia? Fear of the future?
Relax, no one is coming to steal your gas car. Some of us just prefer better performance, efficiency, safety, and less CO2 after the initial 12,000 miles compared to gas vehicles.
If this comment triggers you, go have a few Miller Lites, put on Free Bird, and take your Dodge Ram for a nice ride to the nearest light pole.
What a bizarre take on these comments. Out of 250 comments so far, there are only 16 mentions of EV subsidies (with most of those comments being in favor) and hardly any talk about the problems of EVs. Instead, this is a discussion of why the residents of one state are choosing between different EV manufacturers. For the most part Wolf’s “mostly well-behaved” commenters have stayed on point… until your post. But let’s dig into your post a bit.
First off, NO… car buyers do NOT get subsidies on any kind of ICE vehicle. Zip, zilch, nada. Not only that, but they also get penalized for buying them. In California, as of July 1st, they pay 91 cents on every gallon of gasoline purchased. That alone incentivizes buyers to purchase Teslas… and if you add in the tailpipe emissions tests/fees in California then buying an EV ought to be a no-brainer for much of the California market. So when we are trying to figure out the behavior of California consumers it is more than a little pertinent to consider the fact that most EVs that they can buy are subsidized up to $7500… but NOT all of Tesla’s offerings are eligible for that same subsidy.
Second… I hate to break it to you but EVs aren’t all that “popular” even in California. Even with the full backing of the state’s government for the past fourteen years (direct subsidies for purchasing EVs, strict tailpipe emissions testing of ICE vehicles, state funding of electric charging stations, rising gasoline taxes, etc.) the installed base of EVs is still just above 1.2 million car registrations in California… out of a total of 31.3 million car registrations total in that state. Whether YOU like it or not, there are significant issues with the vehicles (mostly related to range and refueling) even 14 years into their adoption. The technology has not kept pace with the expectations of the politicians pushing it… and California’s consumers are wary of getting caught short.
Wolf used to do a recap of the national automotive industry that showed these trends. I haven’t seen one recently but here is his post from September 2022.
https://wolfstreet.com/2022/09/09/what-americans-are-driving-vehicles-in-operation-used-vehicle-exports-evs-and-stuff-for-engine-geeks/
Are EVs the wave of the future? Probably. Until recently I expected my own next purchase to be one. But in my experience, no matter what technology is being adopted, the glorious future of tomorrow always seems to take a lot longer to arrive than most people expect it to.
Uh…. ICE drivers get plenty of subsidies. Maybe not directly, but it isnhard to ignore the indirect ones they get. Really hard.
Do you think ICE drivers directly pay for the pollutants they spew?
I agree with you that EVs are the wave of the future, and also that the anti-EV commenters are less prevalent in this thread than they are in Facebook and Twitter.
What I mentioned was oil & gas subsidies. Do you deny that there are subsidies for oil and gas, which is the fuel for the 30.1 million non-EV registered vehicles in California?
As far as adoption, ICE vehicles have been around since 1886. EVs, 14 years. Not only that, but EVs launched into a market where most people already had cars. ICE launched into a car less world. Of course a newer technology going against an incumbent technology will take longer to gain market share.
Despite vast campaigns of misinformation about EVs, I.e., “they don’t work during winter,” “all electricity for EVs is generated by fossil fuels,” “the range isn’t enough for daily driving,” “all those batteries will go straight to the landfill” and so on, EVs are doing surprisingly well all things considered.
Why did you decide not to buy one?
It is not that I have decided against buying an EV… it is just that my 2001 Tahoe may not last long enough to save the money to buy one NEXT. My state charges some of the highest license plate fees in the nation… a mid-range Tesla with a MSRP $50,000 would have a car tag cost of $1070 for the FIRST year… the second year would be similar (and payable all at once).
The car tag costs don’t come down much until the value of the car does… so most people here do what I do… drive a car until it drops. Mine went over 500,000 miles last fall without much problem… but now is running very rough. It is hard to justify pouring thousands of dollars into fixing something that old… so selling it and using the money as a down payment on a used car is probably smarter (for now at least).
I am thinking of buying a low(er)-mileage 2006 Tahoe to get me by (I like the rounded body style rather than the square-ish Tahoes from 2007-onward).
As to the supposed subsidies that oil companies get… there really aren’t many that aren’t available to ALL businesses. People who dislike oil companies make a big to-do about those subsidies, but a depletion allowance or deductions for drilling costs are little different from the tax treatment for other industries… even the mining of Lithium would be treated similarly. Needless to say, there have never been government subsidies for the building of petrol stations like California and the U.S. government are currently doing for EV charging stations… to say nothing of any direct government subsidies for the actual purchases of ICE cars themselves.
Last but not least, the problems facing EVs aren’t “misinformation.” EVs stalling out in the blizzards of Chicago were a real thing last winter… and telling people not to believe their own lying eyes really doesn’t work that well. It may not matter much in places with a temperate climate (like California or the Gulf Coast), and I do think that engineering workarounds will be developed to solve those problems… but for now they are problems that need to be solved.
Musk and Trump = peak celebrity
where the person = the brand = revenue = the followership = the gloriating worship
Over. Almost.
I suspect most of us are fatigued by the focus on the yadults.
The youth-never-grown-up-now-adult bodies.
IMHO, more Vehicle Choices, from BEVs, Plug-in Hybrids, Hybrids, CNGs, HFCVs(which have the generous Fuel Credit – making 2-3 year leases very attractive), and the usual ICEs – are available.
Add in Insurance Costs of various Vehicle Types.
Most Murican BEVs(read, TSLAs) were sold in California – especially in Counties surrounding TSLA’s Fremont Plant. IIRC, Top 9 of 10 Counties hosting BEV Traffic were in California – with the exception being Seattle, WA.
Early Adopters are done. California are the Ideal State for Alternative Energy Vehicles because of the mild to hot (2~3 Season) weather year ’round for Population Centers and subsidized support infrastructure for such Vehicles.
Musk is moving his Corporate HQs to TX – allegedly due to new Laws recently signed by Newsom.
We’ll see if that move changes California Sales; but I’m more interested in National, Continential, and Global Sales Figures.