Affordable Classics rise the most, American Muscle Cars fall the most. Ferraris flat, after big drops earlier. Beautiful machines all of them.
By Wolf Richter for WOLF STREET.
Selling these beautiful machines, from American muscle cars to rare Ferraris, got a lot tougher during the Pandemic, after it had already gotten tough before the Pandemic. Auction activity in August dropped to the lowest level since August 2010, according to vintage-auto insurer Hagerty’s September report.
The big event for classic cars was Monterey Car Week in August, normally a series of auctions spread over the Monterey Peninsula, in California, where some of the rarest and most sought-after cars were sold each year. But this August, the auctions took place mostly via online or phone bidding, and some closed-room bidding, and in reduced capacity. The anchor event, the Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, was canceled. And the limited auctions that did take place didn’t even take place in Monterey. So maybe next year.
The overall results in terms of volume and high-end sales at the Monterey Auctions were so lousy that they cannot even be compared to last year’s Monterey Auctions as such comparisons “would yield misleading results,” said Hagerty in its report on the auctions.
Last year’s Monterey auctions had already been rough, crowned by the phenomenal fiasco of the now infamous non-Porsche prototype that RM Sotheby had billed as “1939 Porsche Type 64” and as “the most historically important Porsche ever publicly offered,” with a predicted selling price “in excess of $20 million,” though Porsche AG itself, which was founded a decade after this car was built, resolutely refused to claim it. In a hilarious mess, with fake displays of bids jumping to $70 million, the whole thing collapsed, the car didn’t sell, and the rest of the auctions went to heck.
But two years ago, at the 2018 Monterey auctions, two records were set: a 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO sold for $48.4 million, the highest price ever paid for any car; and a 1935 Duesenberg SSJ Roadster sold for $22 million, the highest price ever paid for an American car. That was the spirit!
At the Monterey auctions this year, no high-end cars were sold. Online auctions still don’t seem to cut it for cars that cost many millions of dollars.
Among Hagerty’s seven primary indices, which are updated three times a year (January, May, and September), “1960s American Muscle Cars” saw the steepest price declines. And the “Affordable Classics” experienced the biggest price gains. Below are six of the seven:
The Ferrari Index:
“Given the name recognition, racing pedigree, and exclusivity, Ferraris tend to lead the market, so keep an eye on this group,” Hagerty says. The Ferrari Index averages the prices of 13 of the “most sought-after street Ferraris of the 1950s-70s.” In September, the average price was unchanged from May.
But the May average price had dropped by about 8% from January, its “largest ever drop,” according to Hagerty, and was down 15% from the peak in January 2016 ($5.7 million), after having soared seven-fold from 2007. The May drop took the average price back to 2014 levels (chart via Hagerty).
The drop in May was powered by a plunge in the price of two of the 13 components:
- 1958 250 California LWB 2dr Spider: $12.6 million in 2018; in 2919, ticked down 1.5%; though May 2020, plunged by 23.4% to $9.5 million, -25% in total. Unchanged in September.
- 1963 250 GT SWB 2dr Coupe: $9.7 million in 2018; -3% in 2019, then -18% through the May 2020 to $7.7 million, -21% in total. Unchanged in September.
In September, eight of the 13 Ferraris in the index experienced no price change from May; three experienced slight price declines and two experienced slight price increases. Here are the 13 Ferraris in the index (if your smartphone clips the fifth column, hold your device in landscape position):
| Ferraris, prices in “good” condition | Sep-2018 | Sep-2019 | May-2020 | Sep-2020 |
| 1966 Ferrari 330 GT SII 2dr Coupe 2+2 12-cyl. 3967cc/300hp | 250,000 | 237,000 | 216,000 | 215,000 |
| 1957 Ferrari 410 Superamerica SIII 2dr Coupe (closed headlight) 12-cyl. 4963cc/340hp | 3,200,000 | 3,200,000 | 3,200,000 | 3,200,000 |
| 1963 Ferrari 250 LM 2dr Coupe 12-cyl. 3286cc/320hp | 18,000,000 | 18,000,000 | 18,000,000 | 18,000,000 |
| 1968 Ferrari 330 GTC 2dr Coupe 12-cyl. 3967cc/300hp | 605,000 | 565,000 | 509,000 | 505,000 |
| 1958 Ferrari 250 California LWB 2dr Spider (closed headlight) 12-cyl. 2953cc/240hp | 12,600,000 | 12,400,000 | 9,500,000 | 9,500,000 |
| 1972 Ferrari Dino 246 GTS 2dr Spider 6-cyl. 2419cc/195hp | 302,000 | 284,000 | 284,000 | 285,000 |
| 1972 Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona 2dr Coupe 12-cyl. 4390cc/352hp | 700,000 | 530,000 | 530,000 | 515,000 |
| 1963 Ferrari 250 GT Lusso 2dr Coupe 12-cyl. 2953cc/240hp | 1,700,000 | 1,100,000 | 1,000,000 | 1,050,000 |
| 1960 Ferrari 250 GT 2dr Coupe 12-cyl. 2953cc/240hp | 656,000 | 630,000 | 600,000 | 600,000 |
| 1972 Ferrari 365 GTS/4 Daytona 2dr Spider 12-cyl. 4390cc/352hp | 2,150,000 | 2,000,000 | 2,000,000 | 2,000,000 |
| 1963 Ferrari 250 California SWB 2dr Spider (closed headlight) 12-cyl. 2953cc/280hp | 14,100,000 | 14,100,000 | 14,100,000 | 14,100,000 |
| 1963 Ferrari 250 GT SWB 2dr Coupe 12-cyl. 2953cc/280hp | 9,700,000 | 9,400,000 | 7,700,000 | 7,700,000 |
| 1968 Ferrari 275 GTB/4 2dr Coupe 12-cyl. 3286cc/320hp | 2,500,000 | 2,250,000 | 1,950,000 | 1,950,000 |
For some of the Ferraris that are not in the index, the price changes were larger, Hagerty reported. Prices of Testarossas, after a “three-year slump,” jumped 13% in the September update. And 308/328s, 575Ms, and 348s had “significant gains,” but prices of 456Ms “dropped slightly” and the 355, after a sharp increase last year, “took a step back.”
The Index of 1960s American muscle cars.
This index, which averages the price of the 15 “rarest and most sought-after muscle cars,” fell for the fifth update in a row and for the eighth of the past nine updates, now down 18% from its peak in January 2018. But the May and September drops were only around 1% each, compared to the plunges in the prior two periods. The average price is back where it had first been in 2007 (chart via Hagerty):
While the prices of 13 machines in the index remained flat since May, two cars took the blame for the drop of the index:
- 1969 Mustang Boss 429, at $162,000: -10% since May, and -29% since September 2018 ($229,000).
- 1969 Hemi Charger 500, at $128,000: -8% since May after having been unchanged for the past three years.
Here are the 15 components of the index:
| 1960s American Muscle cars; prices in “good” condition | Sep-2018 | Sep-2019 | May-2020 | Sep-2020 |
| 1970 Plymouth Road Runner Superbird 2dr Hardtop Coupe 8-cyl. 426cid/425hp 2x4bbl Hemi | 222,000 | 222,000 | 222,000 | 222,000 |
| 1965 Pontiac LeMans GTO 2dr Convertible 8-cyl. 389cid/360hp | 62,600 | 62,600 | 62,600 | 62,600 |
| 1968 Mercury Cougar GT-E 2dr Hardtop Coupe 8-cyl. 428cid/335hp | 79,900 | 79,900 | 79,900 | 79,900 |
| 1968 Chevrolet Camaro Yenko 2dr Sport Coupe 8-cyl. 427cid/425hp | 351,000 | 309,000 | 315,000 | 309,000 |
| 1969 American Motors AMX SS 2dr Fastback 8-cyl. 390cid/340hp | 67,800 | 67,800 | 67,800 | 67,800 |
| 1965 Shelby GT350 2dr Fastback 8-cyl. 289cid/306hp | 378,000 | 368,000 | 368,000 | 368,000 |
| 1970 Plymouth Cuda AAR 2dr Hardtop Coupe 8-cyl. 340cid/290hp | 73,300 | 63,000 | 59,200 | 59,200 |
| 1968 Shelby GT500 KR 2dr Convertible 8-cyl. 428cid/335hp | 155,000 | 136,000 | 136,000 | 136,000 |
| 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 2dr Sport Coupe 8-cyl. 454cid/450hp | 99,500 | 88,700 | 86,900 | 86,900 |
| 1970 Plymouth Cuda 2dr Convertible 8-cyl. 426cid/425hp | 1,500,000 | 1,300,000 | 1,100,000 | 1,100,000 |
| 1970 Buick GS 455 2dr Convertible 8-cyl. 455cid/350hp | 29,500 | 32,200 | 32,200 | 32,200 |
| 1970 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 W-30 2dr Holiday Coupe 8-cyl. 455cid/370hp | 70,800 | 70,800 | 70,800 | 70,800 |
| 1969 Dodge Charger 500 2dr Hardtop Coupe 8-cyl. 426cid/425hp | 139,000 | 139,000 | 139,000 | 128,000 |
| 1964 Chevrolet Impala SS 2dr Convertible 8-cyl. 409cid/425hp | 68,200 | 66,800 | 54,500 | 54,500 |
| 1969 Ford Mustang Boss 429 2dr SportsRoof 8-cyl. 429cid/375hp | 229,000 | 200,000 | 180,000 | 162,000 |
Affordable Classics Index.
Collectible cars priced under $30,000 continue to do well, inching up to an all-time high in September.
Only one of the 13 components fell – the 1971 Datsun 240Z, which had hit a record of $20,000 in May, having about doubled in six years; “clean examples are now well beyond the point of affordability,” Hagerty says. Five components rose, and the remainder were unchanged:
| Affordable Classics, Prices in “good” condition | Sep-2018 | Sep-2019 | May-2020 | Sep-2020 |
| 1967 Volkswagen Beetle 2dr Sedan 4-cyl. 1493cc/53hp | 11,600 | 12,900 | 16,100 | 16,100 |
| 1969 American Motors Javelin 2dr Fastback 8-cyl. 343cid/280hp | 13,600 | 13,600 | 13,600 | 13,600 |
| 1949 Buick Roadmaster Model 76S 2dr Sedanet 8-cyl. 320cid/150hp | 14,600 | 14,600 | 17,500 | 17,500 |
| 1967 Volkswagen Karmann Ghia 2dr Coupe 4-cyl. 1493cc/53hp | 13,900 | 13,900 | 16,200 | 16,800 |
| 1972 Porsche 914 2.0 2dr Targa 4-cyl. 1971cc/91hp | 19,300 | 20,000 | 20,000 | 20,000 |
| 1963 MG MGB Mk I 2dr Roadster 4-cyl. 1798cc/95hp | 9,900 | 9,800 | 9,700 | 9,800 |
| 1971 Datsun 240Z 2dr Coupe 6-cyl. 2393cc/151hp | 18,200 | 18,200 | 20,000 | 19,400 |
| 1965 Chevrolet Corvair Monza 2dr Convertible 6-cyl. 164cid/110hp | 12,500 | 12,500 | 12,500 | 11,900 |
| 1965 Ford Mustang GT 2dr Coupe 8-cyl. 289cid/225hp | 24,700 | 24,900 | 25,600 | 27,900 |
| 1972 Triumph TR6 2dr Convertible 6-cyl. 2498cc/106hp | 12,900 | 13,100 | 13,200 | 13,300 |
| 1963 Studebaker Avanti 2dr Coupe 8-cyl. 289cid/240hp | 19,700 | 19,700 | 19,700 | 19,700 |
| 1962 Studebaker Lark Regal 2dr Convertible 6-cyl. 170cid/112hp | 14,100 | 14,100 | 14,100 | 14,100 |
| 1970 Chevrolet Camaro SS 2dr Sport Coupe 8-cyl. 350cid/300hp | 21,300 | 24,400 | 24,400 | 24,400 |
Index of post-war German collectible cars.
After the boom from 2013 to 2016, prices declined into 2018 and then mostly leveled off. In the May update, the average price ticked down a tad, and in the September update remained unchanged.
Of the 22 components in the index, 17 were unchanged. Two experienced price gains: the 1970 Mercedes-Benz 600 (+5%) and the 1971 Mercedes-Benz 280SL (+15%). Four experienced price declines, the biggest decliner being the 1970 Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo (-8.4%):
| Post-war German Classics, prices in good condition | Sep-2018 | Sep-2019 | May-2020 | Sep-2020 |
| 1957 Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing 2dr Coupe 6-cyl. 2996cc/240hp | 1,300,000 | 1,300,000 | 1,200,000 | 1,200,000 |
| 1970 Mercedes-Benz 280SE 3.5 2dr Cabriolet 8-cyl. 3499cc/230hp | 258,000 | 215,000 | 215,000 | 215,000 |
| 1965 Porsche 356C 1600 SC 2dr Coupe 4-cyl. 1582cc/95hp | 108,000 | 110,000 | 110,000 | 110,000 |
| 1962 Mercedes-Benz 190SL 2dr Convertible 4-cyl. 1897cc/120h | 92,500 | 87,100 | 87,100 | 87,100 |
| 1972 Porsche 911 S 2dr Coupe 6-cyl. 2341cc/210hp | 128,000 | 122,000 | 122,000 | 122,000 |
| 1956 Porsche 356A 1500 GS Carrera 2dr Speedster 4-cyl. 1498cc/128hp | 1,100,000 | 1,000,000 | 1,000,000 | 1,000,000 |
| 1959 Porsche 356A 1600 Super 2dr Coupe 4-cyl. 1582cc/88hp | 119,000 | 119,000 | 97,000 | 97,000 |
| 1948 Porsche 356 Gmund 2dr Coupe 4-cyl. 1086cc/46hp | 950,000 | 1,000,000 | 1,000,000 | 1,000,000 |
| 1971 Mercedes-Benz 280SL 2dr Convertible 6-cyl. 2778cc/180hp | 66,100 | 57,900 | 60,200 | 69,200 |
| 1955 Mercedes-Benz 300Sc 2dr Cabriolet 6-cyl. 2996cc/175hp | 865,000 | 865,000 | 830,000 | 800,000 |
| 1962 Porsche 356B S90 2dr Roadster 4-cyl. 1582cc/90hp | 181,000 | 181,000 | 160,000 | 160,000 |
| 1963 Mercedes-Benz 300SL 2dr Roadster 6-cyl. 2996cc/250hp | 1,350,000 | 1,350,000 | 1,300,000 | 1,250,000 |
| 1973 BMW 3.0CSL Batmobile 2dr Coupe 6-cyl. 3003cc/200hp | 197,000 | 197,000 | 197,000 | 197,000 |
| 1967 Porsche 911 S 2dr Targa 6-cyl. 1991cc/180hp | 173,000 | 166,000 | 159,000 | 159,000 |
| 1979 BMW M1 2dr Coupe 6-cyl. 3453cc/277hp | 528,000 | 440,000 | 420,000 | 420,000 |
| 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7 2dr Coupe 6-cyl. 2687cc/210hp | 489,000 | 425,000 | 365,000 | 360,000 |
| 1979 Porsche 911 Carrera Turbo 2dr Coupe 6-cyl. 3299cc/265hp | 118,000 | 100,000 | 89,000 | 81,500 |
| 1958 Porsche 356A 1600 Super 2dr Speedster 4-cyl. 1582cc/88hp | 305,000 | 305,000 | 288,000 | 288,000 |
| 1973 BMW 2002tii 2dr Sedan 4-cyl. 1990cc/130hp | 28,100 | 30,000 | 32,400 | 32,400 |
| 1970 Mercedes-Benz 600 4dr Sedan 8-cyl. 6329cc/300hp | 78,400 | 94,300 | 94,300 | 99,000 |
| 1959 BMW 507 2dr Roadster 8-cyl. 3168cc/150hp | 2,150,000 | 2,000,000 | 2,000,000 | 2,000,000 |
Index of post-war British collectible cars.
After dropping to a five-year low in the May reading, the index ticked up 1% in the September reading:
The 1% rise in the index was largely a mix of two big moves in opposite directions: the 1954 Jaguar XK 120 roadster jumped 11%; and the 1956 Austin-Healey Le Mans Roadster fell 7.1%:
| Post-war British Classics, prices in good condition | Sep-2018 | Sep-2019 | May-2020 | Sep-2020 |
| 1963 MG MGB Mk I 2dr Roadster 4-cyl. 1798cc/95hp | 9,900 | 9,800 | 9,700 | 9,800 |
| 1961 MG MGA 1600 Mk I 2dr Roadster 4-cyl. 1588cc/78hp | 16,800 | 16,400 | 16,800 | 16,800 |
| 1955 MG TF 1500 2dr Roadster 4-cyl. 1466cc/63hp | 28,500 | 26,500 | 25,800 | 25,700 |
| 1972 Triumph TR6 2dr Convertible 6-cyl. 2498cc/106hp | 12,900 | 13,100 | 13,200 | 13,300 |
| 1956 Austin-Healey 100 M BN2 Le Mans 2dr Roadster 4-cyl. 2660cc/110hp | 144,000 | 140,000 | 140,000 | 130,000 |
| 1967 Sunbeam Tiger Mk II 2dr Convertible 8-cyl. 4737cc/200hp | 104,000 | 105,000 | 105,000 | 105,000 |
| 1965 Jaguar E-Type SI 4.2 2dr Roadster 6-cyl. 4235cc/265hp | 118,000 | 138,000 | 98,100 | 98,100 |
| 1962 Triumph TR3A 2dr Roadster 4-cyl. 1991cc/100hp | 19,200 | 18,100 | 18,000 | 17,900 |
| 1964 Austin-Healey 3000 Mk III BJ8 2dr Convertible 6-cyl. 2912cc/150hp | 39,500 | 40,000 | 39,800 | 39,800 |
| 1954 Jaguar XK 120 2dr Roadster 6-cyl. 3442cc/160hp | 89,300 | 89,300 | 71,600 | 79,500 |
The “Blue Chip” Index of the Automotive A-List.
This index of the “25 of the most sought-after collectible automobiles of the post-war era,” after having plunged 7% in May, and 14% from January 2018, ticked up in the September update. But note over the 2013-2014 period, the average price doubled, and since 2007, it quadrupled! In other words, this was a red-hot asset class over the years through 2018:
The index includes a few of the cars in the individual indices above, and many that are not in the above indices, such as the 1971 Lamborghini Miura, the 1967 Chevrolet Corvette, 1966 Shelby Cobra, the 1969 Toyota 2000GT, the 1959 Maserati 5000GT, to name a few. Here are the 25 components:
| “Blue Chip” Index of the Automotive A-List | Sep-2018 | Sep-2019 | May-2020 | Sep-2020 |
| 1967 Chevrolet Corvette 2dr Convertible 8-cyl. 427cid/435hp | 126,000 | 117,000 | 111,000 | 111,000 |
| 1957 Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing 2dr Coupe 6-cyl. 2996cc/240hp | 1,300,000 | 1,300,000 | 1,200,000 | 1,200,000 |
| 1966 Shelby Cobra 427 (CSX3300 – CSX3360) 2dr Roadster 8-cyl. 427cid/425h | 1,050,000 | 1,050,000 | 1,050,000 | 1,050,000 |
| 1965 Shelby GT350 2dr Fastback 8-cyl. 289cid/306hp | 378,000 | 368,000 | 368,000 | 368,000 |
| 1969 Toyota 2000GT 2dr Coupe 6-cyl. 1988cc/150hp | 660,000 | 550,000 | 550,000 | 550,000 |
| 1959 Maserati 5000GT Frua 2dr Coupe 8-cyl. 4941cc/380hp | 2,100,000 | 2,100,000 | 2,100,000 | 2,100,000 |
| 1958 Ferrari 250 California LWB 2dr Spider (closed headlight) 12-cyl. 2953cc/240hp | 12,600,000 | 12,400,000 | 9,500,000 | 9,500,000 |
| 1954 Lancia Aurelia B24 2dr Spider America 6-cyl. 2451cc/118hp | 990,000 | 990,000 | 713,000 | 713,000 |
| 1972 Iso Grifo IR9 Can Am 2dr Coupe 8-cyl. 6998cc/400hp | 389,000 | 403,000 | 407,000 | 407,000 |
| 1970 Plymouth Cuda 2dr Convertible 8-cyl. 426cid/425hp | 1,500,000 | 1,300,000 | 1,100,000 | 1,100,000 |
| 1958 Bentley S1 Continental Coachbuilt 2dr Drophead Coupe 6-cyl. 4887cc/178hp | 975,000 | 975,000 | 975,000 | 975,000 |
| 1964 Alfa Romeo TZ-2 2dr Coupe 4-cyl. 1570cc/112hp | 2,600,000 | 2,600,000 | 2,600,000 | 2,600,000 |
| 1963 Mercedes-Benz 300SL 2dr Roadster 6-cyl. 2996cc/250hp | 1,350,000 | 1,350,000 | 1,300,000 | 1,250,000 |
| 1953 Chevrolet Corvette 2dr Roadster 6-cyl. 235cid/150hp | 206,000 | 189,000 | 166,000 | 166,000 |
| 1965 Aston Martin DB5 2dr Saloon 6-cyl. 3995cc/282hp | 825,000 | 820,000 | 736,000 | 726,000 |
| 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7 2dr Coupe 6-cyl. 2687cc/210hp | 489,000 | 425,000 | 365,000 | 360,000 |
| 1948 Tucker 48 4dr Sedan 6-cyl. 335cid/166hp | 1,400,000 | 1,250,000 | 1,250,000 | 1,250,000 |
| 1963 Shelby Cobra 289 R&P 2dr Roadster 8-cyl. 289cid/271hp | 950,000 | 950,000 | 902,000 | 902,000 |
| 1954 Jaguar D-Type 2dr Roadster 6-cyl. 3442cc/250hp | 4,400,000 | 3,800,000 | 3,600,000 | 4,000,000 |
| 1958 Porsche 356A 1600 Super 2dr Speedster 4-cyl. 1582cc/88hp | 305,000 | 305,000 | 288,000 | 288,000 |
| 1963 Ferrari 250 California SWB 2dr Spider (closed headlight) 12-cyl. 2953cc/280hp | 14,100,000 | 14,100,000 | 14,100,000 | 14,100,000 |
| 1957 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud I HJ Mulliner 2dr Drophead Coupe 6-cyl. 4887cc/NA | 401,000 | 397,000 | 397,000 | 397,000 |
| 1968 Ferrari 275 GTB/4 2dr Coupe 12-cyl. 3286cc/320hp | 2,500,000 | 2,250,000 | 1,950,000 | 1,950,000 |
| 1959 BMW 507 2dr Roadster 8-cyl. 3168cc/150hpl | 2,150,000 | 2,000,000 | 2,000,000 | 2,000,000 |
| 1971 Lamborghini Miura P400 SV 2dr Coupe 12-cyl. 3929cc/385hp | 1,750,000 | 1,750,000 | 1,750,000 | 1,750,000 |
The lack of sales provides stability for classic cars.
Classic cars are not a day-trading thing. Most owners keep their beautiful machines for a long time. So even in the Good Times, trading volume in each car, for each model year, is small. Some rare cars are sold only every now and then. So when live auction volume dries up, as it has now done due to the Pandemic, and as auctions are shifted online but the top end still hasn’t sold anything online, and when private sales are reduced, then a picture emerges of a market that has been put partially on ice. Most owners can hang on to their cars for a while in hopes of waiting out the Pandemic.
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Surprised to see the Buick GS 455 is so affordable. That was a pretty nice, and stylish, car back in the day.
Lastly, I wonder who will want these cars as us oldsters pass on… our kids don’t seem enamored by them whatsoever.
Cars have been exceedingly bland and mediocre the past few decades.
Apple,
Yes, there are a lot of cars that are built and marketed to be economic and utilitarian. One might say these are bland, and at the lowest cost point, some are mediocre, but that’s what the manufacturers and customers want.
However, if one is looking for a car that is enjoyable to drive and performs well, there’s no comparison to what is being built now.
Check out a new 911 Turbo S. Bland & mediocre it is not.
Thank you Wolf for the great report!
That is not it. If you own a 50 year old car you need a garage to park it so upkeep costs are high. but there are so many different cars you can buy that you only want to have those with which you have an emotional connection. That means likely a car from your youth. but you are unlikely to form an emotional connection with a car that was build 30 years before you were born.
ps. There is another issue. Wealth in the US is getting concentrated in high price real estate areas. but in those places it is expensive to own a dozen inexpensive classics
So true
Not so Porsche. Even though now owned by VAG this company has not lost its grip.
Cars have to get good mileage, so they are designed in a wind tunnel. There is an ideal shape, and they all look like variants of it.
The perfect aerodynamic shape of a vehicle must be an egg, because that is what all the cars have turned into.
I can’t believe people would spend that much money on those cars…. and not buy a F40. Man if I had that kind of money… F40.
Some of us still do! Modern cars (particularly in the US) are bloated, wasteful, buggy and locked down, and that goes double for the rolling iPhones known as Teslas.
My dream car is an electrified Bronco, or 240Z, or something. Lightweight, simple, performant, and no folding 5G RGB smart cupholders.
But one thing I missed out on was learning how to fix old cars (beyond the basics). Modern cars all but force you to rely on licensed mechanics… I couldn’t even change the battery in a used 1 series we had without having to reprogram it! Electric cars don’t have to be that way, which is another reason I don’t like Tesla, as they’ve set the car-as-a-service precedent for everyone to follow.
I’m sorry to say but they need to be that way. One reason is that “all” new cars are leased and not owned. And the other is that the main cost of a car is the battery. If you know the exact state it is in than you can sell/lease the second hand car with (a real & hard) guarantee on the battery. This allows for a higher price and for those without for a much lower price (because selection effect makes it that those cars are very likely to be lemons)
Theres a big difference between securing usage data and annihilating right-to-repair. EV batteies should absolutely be locked down for a number of reasons, but other safe, repairable parts of the car should not, and all that date should be user accessible.
As for virtually all cars being leased from the manufacturer… I hope thats not a thing until the robotaxis come along. And L5 self driving farther away than most people think.
I met someone a couple years ago who was considering starting a business to convert classic cars to electric. Not sure if they ended up going for it or not. A big question, and hard to answer, was how big’s the market for it? Good to know there’s some people out there looking for that.
Not people with much money though… at least not yet.
There are companies doing electric conversions of classics, most famously the Jag E-Type Zero Prince Harry owns. Pricing for a one-off conversion seems to be minimum $50K if you want competitive range and performance.
“Modern cars all but force you to rely on licensed mechanics…”
What? People reverse engineer all those electronic systems. Tools are usually out there to do whatever the mechanic does. On my old Honda Accord, I remember rebinding a replacement key/lock/immobilizer to the ECU using dealer only tools (that had to be authorized per day of use) in my friends driveway.
Teslas pose a problem because if they catch you in the systems they will ban you from free supercharging I’ve heard.
Young people go berzerk over my 69 Impala convt.
What I don’t get is why anyone would want a modern shoe shaped plastic mediamobile just like everyone else’s. New cars are so incredibly boring. I can barely tell them apart.
Prius is the most dowdy, ugly vehicle ever built with teslas a close second.
The pool of young enthusiasts is bigger than common wisdom suggests. They just can’t afford to participate yet. As evidence, keep in mind we’ve been saying “young people just aren’t into cars” for at least a decade now. The people we were talking about then are now paying $35K for Integra R’s.
Right on the Buick, nice lines and apparently a sleeper. A neighbor has a GS 455 convertible, metallic blue with white leather, gorgeous car.
That was grrrreat, Wolf. And crruel too.
You can’t keep every thing that slides into the forecourt.
The wealthy are saving their money.
How is the fine art market holding up?
wonder how many cars are getting burned up right now in california
not enough for sure
Ron Perelman from the Revlon company recently sold some art at auction to raise money. He got what was described as expected prices, but one piece was withdrawn from the sale. The withdrawn piece either didn’t have a bid or never met the minimum reserve price.
The other news at that auction was that Hong Kong buyers were visibly absent from the sale.
Also, Perelman sold his stake in AM General, who makes Humvees.
Two of our pandemic projects were on cars; a 92 500SL and an older off road vehicle. I’ve talked to various mechanics and suppliers and they say that their business has been pretty good working on the “pandemic projects”. It’s interesting what money got spent on during the last seven months.
Nice to see LBCs–‘Little British Cars’–holding up reasonably well. I have a ’56 Austin-Healey BN2/100M and a ’67 3000 (BJ8).
All these cars will be near worthless soon.
Without nostalgia the value is near zero. And you need wealthy nostalgic people.
Even if they’re not shifted for 20yrs, when they do move it’ll be for very little.
I don’t think the younger generations are as nostalgic about cars, as numerous, or as wealthy, and the numbers of cars sold were higher too, so I don’t see the same happening with future classics… though the market appears to be trying.
Millennials are either drivers or not. The drivers love old muscle cars and are avid followers of the market for buying and restoring old cars. Since this is the only way they can ever own one.
They love old muscle cars but they love the cars they drove in Need for Speed more. And that is what they will buy.
I was not alive when the XK120 or the 356 came out, my desire has nothing to do with nostalgia and everything to do with beauty. Beauty is timeless. Don’t kid yourself, Zoomers will want old cars same as Boomers.
My only property is a 4 car garage in Tucson. When I die the nieces will gain an appreciation for the marks listed above when they suddenly find they are proud owners. The garage also has a wonderful basketball court, contain your envy.
I agree there are still buyers. But a lot less.
Nostalgia is the bulk driver of collectors.
If you’re buying expensive classic cars as ornaments then you need to be hugely wealthy.
I don’t think the younger generations will be as wealthy given debt levels are rising.
Demographically there are less up and coming “old” people too.
The classic car market has everything against it.
Once liquidity dries up there will be panic sales. Here in the UK I have anecdotal evidence of people using business grants and furlough money to buy classic cars during the summer months. There has been a spike in prices on mainstream cars. Once the furlough scheme ends and the Subsequent large scale job losses the prices of assets that have benefited from NIRP/ZIRP over the last decade will plummet. Who’s going to buy in a deflationary environment and uncertain of the future.
The ultra wealthy can afford to hang on but mainstream Joe can’t he will need to sell to get liquidity to fund mortgages, rent or help out family.
I can see prices declining rapidly next year.
The mainstream car are easily sold in the EU so bottom is not decided by what England does but by Europe and the pound-euro exchange.
1) Dark pool perfect timing : Xmas Dec 24 2018(L) and Rosh Hashana 2020 FANG(L).
2) $3.5T stimulus to feed the poor, to boost Nancy STOXX’s and buy a 1957 Ferrari dream car.
I finally agree with a point you made. Xmas will definitely be a turning point of some sort. Unemployment benefits under the Cares Act will end on Dec 31, including the extended benefits. Then the deluge.
1) 10 Tech = $10T.
2) A 15% correction = $1.5T.
3) Enough $T to stimulate the economy and buy Van Gogh & Ferrari.
On the low end of the scale GM square body trucks and gm g-body platform cars have been rapidly increasing along with early gm obs trucks.
I have a 1998 Chevy Cheyenne K2500 4wD extended cab short box pickup. I recently spent an afternoon looking for a set of front seats to swap in while I redo the originals.
Touring my local junk yards – almost all the Chevy/GMC trucks are gutted right out to the shell. I was lucky to find a set of seats from a 1996 Sierra in an unusual place in the yard and grab them. Asking around it appears they get parted out in the yards pretty quickly because people seem to be going to extra lengths to keep the old ones on the road.
I still see lots of ’90 and early 2000 trucks on the road. My mechanic sees quite a few too. Parts for the Chevy 350 are easy to get, and if you take care of them they run forever.
Pricing new trucks I can see why. Pay 44k to 55k for a basic work truck. Wowsers.
Sounds like this market needs a rescue. Are any of the regional Fed offices on this??
It’s been reported the Fed is buying The Classic Car ETF (CCet). Go long!!!
The article says a lot about current wages as opposed to vehicles as an investment. Back then friends of mine didn’t think twice about plunking down for a new Mustang or Javelin. Guys in those same jobs today might have a tricked out PU, but likely as not they drive a souped up import. My nephew is barely hanging on in a small apt and drives a junker Civic.
I also noticed the prices of mint VW Beatles and Ghias. Missing were Westfalias and Combis which have continued to rise in price. As motor homes and other/all RVs have buyer lineups during Covid, I don’t expect those prices have dropped this year.
My question for readers: Would you buy a classic car as an investment, or would you buy some decent property more suitable for a pandemic and Climate Change? (Cars are a dumb investment, imho).
And: What would it cost to insure a 2.5 million dollar car every year and what would security entail? This has to be included in the evaluation.
Disclosure: I own an ’81 Westfalia all dolled up but nowhere to go these days. :-(
I went to a party in LA about 20 years ago. The house was in this neighborhood called the Venice Canals. The owner was a single guy who was clearly doing well and wanted people to know it. Throughout the house were “collectibles,” essentially toys for movie franchises like Star Wars. I remember he made a point of noting how much he paid for his toys (thousands), they must be worth much more now.
This 40 year experiment/smash and grab in debt inflation and labor repression is yielding some interesting behaviors.
Go back a bit to the late New Ave era remake of Breathless with Richard Gere. Starts out stealing a Porsche in Vegas. The flow of it works from Westwood down to Venice and some Hollywood districts. Ultimately, after escaping a theater showing “Gun Crazy”, the French Fifi picks the classic Caddy Convertible for the escape car. But in driving up to an abandoned (Errol Flynn’s) estate/now city park, they pass two guys at night having a duel with Star Wars lightsabers. Point is, these films kind of represent what is the current flavor, but they also help to drive the collecting craze for decades that follow. The pop psychology continues through Fast & Furious era (also stealing the name from an old car film). But can these influences continue much longer? They survived the big one in ’29. Prices might adjust back and forth, but as investment value…who knows?
Thank you for the thoughtful and entertaining reply. Maybe I just regret using my Millenium Falcon for target practice all those years ago.
If that guy was a Scientologist, I’ve been to a party there too.
The high end of the market seems more speculative to me. The upside is that a Ferarri will likely never fall to zero. If you already have the means to store a vehicle and even better are able to maintain one, a car can be a great investment. Knowing how to buy and sell one is key here also.
Many of those Ferarris came from the Atwood Collection in Rockford IL. Atwood Industries was a big automotive supplier.
I love that the “under $30k” index is breaking through $30k. I’d love to see what the Fox body Mustang chart would look like. It’s insane how expensive those have become. I have been looking for a project to start with my kids after selling my 1968 Impala last fall. That car did really well the 7 years I owned and was in the meat of affordable American classics. I cant find anything decent in that category now. 80’s and 90’s German cars still seem to be affordable unless it’s and 8 series BMW which I’m still kicking myself for not buying at the bottom.
This index was called the “under 25k,” and they had to raise the limit (I think in 2019) in order to have enough cars in it. At this rate, it’ll be renamed “under $35k” in a few years :-]
In the small industrial neighborhood where my shop is located there is an online based seller of exotic cars. They buy, do minor repairs and detailing and resell with a fancy website. Their Inventory is about a third of what is was 2 years ago. Mostly air cooled Porsche’s , a few Austin Healy’s , a couple of pace cars and a 70’s Ferrari. Almost all in the $150,000 range. They used to have a lot of “Everyman” stuff like mint land cruisers , corvair pickups, and rare VW buses.
“In the small industrial neighborhood where my shop is located there is an online based seller of exotic cars.
Alex Manos?
I watch the auto auctions (Mecum and Barrett-Jackson), which are in heavy rotation on NBCSN and Motor Trend TV on cable.
One thing that’s been apparent for the past three years is how soft the collector car market has gotten. Wolf in this post talks about the high end. What is really notable when you watch these auctions is how the middle and low end of the market has completely collapsed.
Mid-range collectible cars that used to sell at $20k – $40k have suffered a heavy drop in buying, with many cars now not selling. Or, you’ll have ridiculous situations where a car will sell for less than it would if it were on a lot. Recently I saw a low-mile, very high end 2002 Mercedes AMG sell for $11,000.
I think the dynamic is as follows: high end cars in the indicies, like Wolf talks about, are for the very rich. Mid-range collectible car buyers then to be guys who’ve built up successful small business, often tradesman (i.e., small independent businessmen who own stores, small chains or francises, as opposed to PMC types). These are people who are heavily impacting by economic conditions on the ground.
What was special about 2013?
That’s when the QE money started spreading into assets such as RE and classic cars. Well, actually, it started in 2012 and took off seriously in 2013.
Classic sign of collapse, like the shae price of Sotherby’s, in privte hand now though, the first people (Insiders) to pull back spending is the super rich, as soneone noted above in the comments who will buy this stock of cars & include fine art, the days of hiding cash in these assets are gone, no one other than boomers valed these antiques, modern thinking is a different, even the wealth of these boomers will be split 3,4 or more times as they pass the wealth to their children, this will be dilution in times of less money chasing an over capacity market. This is a great indicator just like masions, fine art, luxury apartments and so on, just imagine how much of these will be put for sale as boomer kids liquidate in a falling market to split the inheritance, they will create an enormous fire sale, it amazes me how most people can’t see this, if 3 or more children inherit assets they want them sold quick & have zero attachment to them, all ya have to do is look at the stately homes of the 1800, 1900, London, Paris to see how over time wealth can dilute, these massive homes are now hotels, 20 appartments, the ability to afford to keep & run them erodes over time, those who believe inflation is coming are delusional, this is a defaltionary tsunami.
Ruthless Gangbuster,
Yes, but you’re gonna have to be very patient. Boomers are now between 55 and 75. Those at the high end, now 75, have a remaining life expectancy of 11 years for men and 13 years for women. Boomers at the young end who are now 55 have a remaining life expectancy of 26 years for men and 29 years for women. Many of us are barely on the other side of the prime of our lives. Many of us are working and feeling great. You see, we’re in no hurry to depart ?
I find demographics very interesting. I have had a life long appreciation of motorcycles. About 15 years ago when Harley Davidson was selling more bikes than it could build, I was amazed. I remember telling my wife “at some point when these guys are too old to ride, you are going to see a ton of pretty low mile Harleys for sale”.
We’re getting closer now.
I’ve got two 70+ year old friends with Harley’s in the garage not ridden for years). One guy does start his now and then. The other one is a dusty garage queen with flat tires and a dead battery.
Me, @76, I gave up on motorcycles 20 years ago after a close friend got cut off on I-45 in Houston and died from his injuries.
Old men ought to sell their bikes and buy a Corvette (while they can still get in and out of one).
Yes, there are already a lot of them for sale. But not many younger people (meaning 40-year-olds and younger) want to buy a Harley in the US, new or used. That’s a real problem for Harley. But it has better luck overseas.
The children/grandchildren, of “muscle car” owners, have no use for cars.
All millennial’s/Z’s care about is newest iPhone, e-scooters, Lyft/Uber.
Every acquaintance I knows is bewildered that no family members have any interest in mid 1950’s through early 70’s Detroit Iron.
Car [custom/perf.] magazines are downsizing or gone.
A [local] longtime Vette collector decided to sell his fleet of 10 1953-1962 [one for each year] as no family member wanted them.
Owner est. $3m for the set, Barrett-Jackson said ” no way” & would only sell one at a time. After all expenses, owner came home w/<$1.1m.
I never knew the owner, but a tax attorney I know did. Said cars were nice originals, but nothing rare [no fi's amongst the group].
No happy ending: wife files for divorce six wks later. 'Silvers splitters' syndrome.
Time frame of sale was 1st qtr of '19.
IF you are going to store a car (or limited usage), fill the tank w/clear (non ethanol) gas. Avgas is also usable. Will not degrade like the current stuff at the pump (two wks longevity before breakdown unfolds). Unleaded race gas is optional, @$10 a gal. Yes, it is avail at the pump…depending on locale/state.
Hint: do not pull up to an fbo wanting Avgas pumped into a vehicle. Containers only sales, unless the line crew knows you (^.*).
Happy motoring ( bonus points for what company utilized that slogan).
Will try not to cheat sheet…was it ESSO? And a tiger mascot?
Winner! Winner!
Marketing division had plush toy “tiger tales” for sale (service station retailers) to attach to the fuel inlet.
Also “Tiger” themed was Sunbeam’s Alpine Tiger, which was brainchild of Carroll Shelby.
If you have ever seen the movie American Graffiti, all of the the cruising that occurs in the movie is illegal now and would get your children/grand children arrested or shot today.
“Cruising” has been superseded by (illegal) street racing.
LEO seizure & forfeiture of all vehicles (tow rigs/trailers too) involved.
Plus heavy duty fines/court costs proceedings.
Similar $tructure to ”poaching” [fishing/hunting] puni$hment$.
‘Protect the revenue streams, and serve arrest warrants.’
Phoo! I won’t even consider selling any of the cars for at least 2-3 years. Besides, I didn’t buy them as investments, I bought them because they are FUN. Some I’ve had for over 25 years. Another 5 isn’t an issue.
By then they will be worth 80% less, but if it’s for fun doen’t matter does it, ya wont be even able to drive them soon enough, with all this pollution ICE cars will be banned nearly everywhere or taxed like crazy.
Only the poor will be forced to ride in electric vehicles.
Lisa Hooker
I am right there with you. I have spent almost $50K on a custom renovation on a 71 Volkswagen Squareback. The looks and questions I get from people when I drive it around town are worth $1MIL. :-)
I wouldn’t get $10K at Barrett’s or Mecum.
Think it’s kind of quaint to see the boxy (not boxxer) Lark getting some attention. Convert model of course but that must be the least streamlined car mentioned.
I own a late 70s 911SC. In 2010 these went from $10-15K in good condition and average miles. In 2015 they were $20-25K. In 2019 there were $30-35K. Today they are around $40K. The 84-89 version which is more coveted, and especially the 87-89 version go for well over $40K, with higher than average condition well into the $50s. A couple of years ago, $45K was considered a lot. Now it’s average.
These are real prices from real people selling, not Mecum or other auction houses which distort prices like crazy. And don’t even get me started about the insanity at BaT, lol.
I love BAT.
I saw a 1960 Volvo P544 (nice one, though) go for $27K this past week. Nutty bidders there. I believe the guys who started it just sold out to the Hearst Corporation.
BaT is great if you’re a seller. You have to be certifiably insane to be a buyer there. I’ve read umpteen horror stories of cars being total pieces of junk and mis represented. Generally speaking I’d never buy a car without a thorough inspection. I’ve bought cars long distance before, sight unseen but always with a pre purchase inspection. Throwing down $30K when all you have are a few pictures to go off, is nuts, IMHO.
I take interest in cars which are being sold on BaT for the second time in a relatively short period of time. Often, the description mentions fairly major work done after the car was purchased the first time.
There are also instances where a buyer posts a follow up on the purchase. Not always a rosy experience, or one suggesting there was much “curation” or communication involved.
There was a time we bought used 914s because they were cheap and fun to race. Oh well.
Lisa just sparked my memory. My son has a 914 tucked away in his garage. New engine, spare racing tires, all souped up but needs a new wiring harness. He traded some electrical work for it. Roll bar/cage. I thought he was nuts because he’ll never finish it himself, but claims to have a mechanic friend who needs his house wiring upgraded. We’ll see.
I have two old MC. They are actually worth quite a bit more than new. One is a Honda Trail 90 (CT 90) with 1400 km on it, all original parts. The other is an 81 CT 110 (which I use). Both in the same garage. :-)
As someone who buys cars only for utilitarian transportation, I find this to be very amusing. Collectibles are risky and tax disadvantaged. And subject to whim and fancy and require insurance. Not for me.
Land, cars, you name it. The very rich have bought it all. All of it.
What can I say…
Rich people are in extreme difficulty to distinguish themselves from damned middle class which have the dishonesty to load itself with debt and buy nice housing, travel abroad, play golf. Damn it!
The only wealth indicators aavailable are those with natural rarety: art, old cars…
Mitsubishi 3000GTs (a true animal, if you can find one), Honda NSXs, Toyota Supras and Nissan Skylines are all worthy cars. Toyota 86s are a modern classic. Who needs Ferraris?
My son (22yo) and I have had great times going to Monterey Car Week for years (only once to Pebble Beach Concour D’ Elegance). Some car shows and auctions are free or inexpensive to attend (Not Pebble Beach mind you). We would be at “Goodwood” in England today if it was not for Covid. Major withdrawals this year :/ .
He has a Datsun 260z, got very cheap, before the runup, car not running and he is have a fun time working on it. 5 of his friends have Z’s or other soon to be 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s Japanese collector cars. Always modifying them. The going joke among them is to have them all running at once so they can go drive somewhere together.
For the few millennials who are into cars, the 80’s,90’s and 2000’s seems to be the sweet spot for future collector cars. (Datsun 240z is weird, seems to be an outliner both young and old love this car). Very few care much about keeping them original, not like us OCD boomers and Pre Boomers.
Many of the ones on this Hagerty list are the ones I, a Boomer, have loved for decades. I think these charts are going to show lackluster results for years to come.
Start thinking collectables from the 80’s,90’s and 2000s from all countries.
Correction, Goodwood last Sunday.
What good is a status symbol online. No one can see me next to my new car. Covid strikes again.
Instagram.
A good percentage of the local and regional car shows and cars & coffees in my area are back up and running. The prestigious national events might not be back yet in early 2021, but later shows will be.
I think a lot of the market was driven by too many people who wanted a certain car back in the day but could not afford it. When they got old and well healed, there were so few left, the prices went ballistic. Luckily I spent a couple of years flipping 60’s and 70’s vintage cars when I was young, and got to own almost everything at one time or another. I would never pay the prices they go for today.
I’ve owned a number of semi collector cars over the years. Camaros, Firebirds, 2 Porsche 911s, a Supra Turbo. In 2018 I decided to buy a new car under warranty, no longer enjoying crawling around on a concrete floor, and settled on a Camaro LS (bottom end), 6 cylinder 335 HP (top speed rated at 149), 6 speed manual (7 yr warranty covers it on the track according to my mechanic). I bought a Camaro since I mostly owned them, but Mustangs and Chargers/Challengers are probably as good or better. The Technology Package include 4 or 5 WiFi connections, never used, and a 7 speaker Bose sound system, always used. This has been a very good, car, far better than the earlier Camaros/Firebirds I’ve owned. One downside is poor visibility, but at least it has a backup camera. I would recommend anyone looking for Muscle try one of these modern cars. May even be a classic some day. The Chief Engineer for the 5th and 6th generations, Al Oppenheiser , has been transferred to the EV division.
I’ve owned a couple of modern muscle cars, and, while better than the old stuff in every measurable way, they don’t return the same experience. Certainly a great way to go if one wants 75% of the experience with none of the drawbacks though.
Give me a bug eyed sprite or a TR 6 with wire wheel knock offs or maybe MGB fast back And I be a happy grrl
Good choices. I’ve run the gauntlet from a ’49 TC basket case to a 2020 Z4. The ratty bugeye wins the prize for most fun, hands down.
For those will a few extra bucks, there is a 2005 Porsche Carrera GT Manual for sale here in Oz……………..
The asking price is “only” $1,688,800″ plus government charges – those would be another A$84,000 or so on top of that price. Only 678 kilomters on the car.
And if that isn’t your style, how about a 2015 Ferrari LaFerraia F150 Auto for A$4,499,990 plus another A$405,000 in government duty? Or if that is too much, there is a 1987 Ferrari F40 maual for around $A2.4 million.
Only a couple of those Italian machines in the village area that I know of though as the people that live in our area that like those type of fancy imports go more for the Porsches and AMG’s.
Alternatively, if you in the land of Oz, you can do what the movie industry here does: have a classic “look alike” built as a custom car by one of the specialty craftsmen builders.
I’ve seen some beautiful bespoke clones here. Some use NASCAR parts underneath, almost all use high powered modern “crate engines” from China.
Depending on the level of interior finish, prices tend to run from A$100k to A$500k, which is much less than the normal fat SUV’s at the new car dealers.
Really… When things start to come unglued in this formerly great land, the LAST thing of import will be ‘vintage’ autos …
You’ll sell that ride, plus your mother, on top of that right arm ….. for a speck of food!
But okay, go ahead … whistle past that graveyard, all ya want!
Art Basel Banana now in Guggenheim Museum, NYC.
Tsunami of selfies, searching for that lost shaker of salt
Sodium Chloride, that is
I’m going everywhere, man
Gonna cross the desert’s bare, man
Breathe the mountain air, man
Of travel, a trilionaire, man
I’m going everywhere
Rosebud-this really cracked me up! A splendid smile of lyric salad you’ve bestowed here…
Stay well, safe travels, and-
may we all find a better day…
I miss Ms Dey. Take care of her.
I missed the weekly report on US (un) employment especially given that report in the news about the huge number of cases of fraud in California in regards to unemployment benefits………….
I repviously asked on another aricle if anyone in California was actually working…………….
I guess the answer is yes: working on filing fake claims!!!
Even according to the BLS, with its bogus numbers, there are 2.13 million “unemployed” in California, with an unemployment rate of 11.4%.
Wasn’t there that report of over 600,000 fake claims according to some data released by the State of California?
Here in Oz they still count people ’employed’ even if they work zero hours if they are getting money from the government under the ‘JobKeeper Program’ ……..guess that there were around 110,000 or so of those in the last report which would have pushed the real unemployment rate to around the 9.5% – 10% area instead of falling from 7.5% to 6.8%.
Too late now and will see how much the market bounces back, if anything when I get up!
There are reports of under-reported unemployment claims, over-reported unemployment claims, double-counted unemployment claims, fraudulent unemployment claims, wrongly not-processed unemployment claims, wrongly denied unemployment claims, unpaid unemployment claims…. it’s total “data chaos” as I have said from the beginning.
But the fake BLS data isn’t based on unemployment claims. It’s based on surveys.
“But the fake BLS data isn’t based on unemployment claims. It’s based on surveys.”
Yes, but that has been the case forever which means the unemployment data has been ‘fake’ forever.
And so are the employment stats from Australia – based on surveys.
It’s all GIGO.
At least people in the USA get weekly dat and other stats to work with. In Australia ll we have is the monthly report.
A man I rented from in the 1980’s had a Shelby Cobra painted with grey primer. He was trying to restore it. He needed to find original parts to restore it. Not sure what happened to him.
They don’t count as collectors, but one class of cars that has increased in value a lot very recently is the Porsche 996. These are the ugly stepchildren of Porsches since they were the 1st water cooled and they have the notorious IMS problem (which can easily be fixed but people still are scared of it). And headlights. Yes, people hate them because of headlights, Porsche people are weird like that. These languished in the $15-20K range forever. Then suddenly in the past 1-2 years people realized it’s a $100K car (in today’s dollars) that goes 0-60 in under 5 seconds and is as blast to drive. Now they’re pushing $30K and some lower mileage models are into the mid $30s.
The Porsche Boxers are coming alive too, even with the IMS bearing problem. Maybe not everywhere, but bidding is up on BAT.
Picasso rolling over in his grave, Duchamp is laughing.
I have a couple of classic convertibles. For everyone who says that the young don’t appreciate them you should go rent one and see how many young people pull up on side of you with their thumbs up.
The AMX was a beast of a sled, fast but exceedingly primitive and shoddy.
Chevelle SS454, red w/black racing stripes? Sure, I’d pay $90K for one.
The 2dr. Chargers were a blast to drive, even with the 318.
A friend had a mint-condition convertible 68 Firebird 400/blueprinted and balanced, beautiful burgundy paint. Definitely worth at least $200K now.