Now updated with the prices for the 2026 model year.
By Wolf Richter for WOLF STREET.
Ford has started production this week of its 2026 F-150 XLT pickups, final prices are posted on its website, and the first ones will be on dealer lots in about 4-6 weeks. Toyota’s 2026 Camry LE sedans have been on dealer lots for a while. So with both prices for the 2026 model year finalized, I can update the proprietary “WOLF STREET Ford F-150 XLT & Toyota Camry LE Price Index.”
Ford marginally reduced the MSRP of the F-150 XLT for the second year in a row, to $45,595 (not including the $2,595 in “destination charges” … more in a moment), after the obscene price spikes for the 2022, 2023, and 2024 model years had totaled 34.5%.
The base F-150 XLT in this index is a two-door rear-wheel drive truck with cloth interior, that for 2026 has the 2.7L V6 EcoBoost engine (325 HP and 410 lb.-ft. of torque), a 10-speed automatic transmission, and a lot of nice standard equipment.
For 2026, Ford has two lower-end models, the F-150 XL and the SXT. But the Wolf Street index goes back to 1989, and only the XLT has been available every year. The 2026 base XL starts just below $40,000.
Any upgrades from the base F-150 XLT increase the cost of the truck. For example, an F-150 Platinum 4X4 Crew Cab (four doors) with the 3.5L PowerBoost Full Hybrid Engine and all the bells and whistles has an MSRP of $96,800 (plus $2,595 in “destination charges”).
Need 720 HP “to raise your adrenaline and stir up all sorts of excitement,” as Ford says on its website? Your pleas have been heard. There is the Raptor 4X4 Crew Cab with the 5.2L Supercharged V8 Engine. This truck fully loaded has an MSRP of $120,000 (plus $2,595 in “destination charges”).
So Ford’s high-end trucks are in the luxury category and can cost about three times as much as the base trucks.
Toyota changed strategy for the 2025 model year, when it made hybrid drive, still a $2,400 option in 2024, standard on all Camrys, including the base Camry LE. And in making that $2,400 option standard, it increased the MSRP for the 2025 Camry LE by $1,980, or by 7.5%. This became the lowest-priced Camry available a year ago.
Then for the 2026 model year, the price of the base Camry LE Hybrid, the lowest-priced Camry available, rose by 2.1%, to $29,000 (plus $1,195, for Toyota’s “Delivery, Processing and Handling Fee”).
The legacy automakers set MSRPs at the beginning of each model year for the entire model year. But throughout the year, automakers attempt to stimulate sales with various incentives paid to dealers and/or rebates paid directly to customers, and by subsidizing loan rates and leases through their captive lenders (such as Ford Credit and Toyota Financial Services). Dealers then apply discounts as they see fit, and actual prices that customers pay vary from dealer to dealer and from day to day.
Why the base F-150 XLT and the base Camry LE? The WOLF STREET price index uses them for two reasons: Both go back beyond 1990; and both have been bestsellers in their categories, true mass-market vehicles. Other models, such as the Corvette or the Mustang, go back even further, but they have never been mass-market vehicles.
It’s amusing to note that in the 1990s, when trucks were still reasonably priced, the Camry LE was more expensive than the F-150 XLT.
But then automakers started figuring out that Americans were willing to pay much higher prices for big upscale equipment, and jacked up prices, and their profit margins on trucks soared to obscene levels, while they could not raise prices as easily on their sedans. After years of trying, the US legacy automakers, under pressure from Wall Street, gave up and began abandoning their sedans, and most of them were no longer in production by 2019, leaving the market to imports. The only “car” that Ford still produces for the US market is the Mustang. Ford killed its Camry competitor, the Fusion, in 2018.
But as Ford found out, there are limits to how much Americans are willing to pay for big equipment, after the ridiculous 34% price spike for the 2022 to 2024 model years of its trucks: Sales stalled, inventory piled up, and massive incentives were needed to move the trucks. Since then, Ford has cut the MSRP, and incentives are still needed.
The “charges” and “fees” also increased. Ford’s “destination charges” jumped by 30% year-over-year to $2,595, from last year’s $1,995, more than eating up the little reduction in MSRP (last year’s charges had been unchanged from the prior year).
Including “destination charges,” total MSRP of the base F-150 XLT edged up by $395 to $47,985. But that was still down by $1,630 from the total MSRP two years ago.
Toyota’s “delivery, processing and handling fee” rose by 5.3% year-over-year, to $1,195 from last-year’s $1,135, which had increased by 3.6% from the prior year ($1,095).
And the total MSRP of the Camry LE rose by 2.2% to $30,195 from last-year’s $29,535.
The CPI for new vehicles. To stimulate sales, automakers and dealers piled on massive incentives and discounts. The CPI for new vehicles, which tracks the purchase prices paid by customers, not MSRPs, did a good job tracking this.
The WOLF STREET price index and the CPI for new vehicles show just how far out of line Ford’s price increases for the F-150 have been over the years, compared to the overall new vehicle prices, which CPI tracks, while Camry price increases roughly matched overall new vehicle price increases as tracked by CPI.
For the 2025 model year, Toyota made the $2,400 hybrid option standard, so this is an upgrade of the vehicle and the price increase resulting from that was not inflation, but from a major “quality improvement.” This happens all the time in the auto industry. But CPI attempts to show inflation, and not quality improvements, and so it attempts to eliminate the costs of “quality improvements” with “hedonic quality adjustments.”
Since 2010:
- CPI for new vehicles has risen by 28.7% (yellow in the char below).
- The Camry LE MSRP has risen by 32.4% (blue in the chart below). Through model year 2024, it lagged behind CPI. The added hybrid powertrain in model year 2025 then caused the price to jump and surpassed CPI.
- The F-150 XLT MSRP has risen grotesquely by 72.9%, despite the cuts over the past two years. (red)
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45 grand for a F-150,hmmmm…..,that means even though well built up my 1985 F-150(4×4) I still have 20 grand extra to play with to even costs out!Man,I see a monster truck in the future!
Damn I love me motor vehicle death traps!
The daily driver 1998 Olds I bought for 5 grand with 52000 mile so far 8 months later and about 7 thousand miles on it is doing great,do fell I lucked out in that deal.
I still want to see the Toyota Hi-Lux here,would buy one quickly and add the mid east package of mounted .50 or rocket launcher option in the bed.
The mobile attack platform of Hamasland, and many other terrorists.
Guessing the internal motto is now “There’s a fool in your future!”.
$120k Raptor 4X4 Crew Cab. Add a bathroom and kitchen and you can call it home. I mean think about it, like a RV only w/more power. I like it. BTW I want to appologize to everyone for being so snarky, but geewhiz…am I the only one that cannot believe my eyes today? They use to say if the music is too loud you are too old. Now is it, if it looks outrageously expensive you are too old?
Gone are the days of me buying used tires from a junkyard for $2.00 each for my 1951 Chevrolet junker. Tubes were $0,50 extra if yours was too far gone for patching.
Caldwell retreads for this guy for my 70s TransAm, up until about 1990. Glorious savings!
I saw one of those gawd-awful Tesla Cybertrucks on the road yesterday and couldn’t help but think how much the buyers of these trucks were suckered into buying one of the (in my opinion) biggest pieces of garbage in automotive history. Riddled with issues and almost useless as a truck/pickup, massive price tag, insurability issues, computer issues. And what a price tag for such imperfection! Voluntarily inflicted inflation.
I wouldn’t be seen in one of those if you gave it to me for free.
The Cybertruck far outclasses any other pickup with steer by wire, drive by wire, air suspension that will raise you up 19 inches, four wheel steering, a world class sound system and full self driving to top it all off. Not to mention it will out run a Porsche 911 while towing a Porsche 911.
I have never had a repair issue in over a year and my insurance is reasonable. Where do you get such mis-information? The top end truck is no more expensive than the Ford Raptor and yet will handily out perform it. And it is cheap to own. No oil changes, few brake changes and a fuel cost of about 5 cents a mile depending on your electricity cost.
I use it as a pickup everyday. Its 6.5 ft bed is the same size (without the wheel wells, of my old F150. My entire family is now free of going to gas stations and oil change shops.
Mass,what have you put on for miles and was wondering if you live in a winter zone and if yes how much does it /does not effect miles per charge?
I will stay with ice vehicles as been wrenching them for decades,do not feel could effectively do my own work on a full electric vehicle,hell,cannot do a lot on the newer ice without a lot of new tools!
When we go skiing up in the Sierra Nevada, above 7,000 feet where it gets bitter cold, there are lots of EVs in the parking lots of the ski areas, more recently including some Cybertrucks. They work great in snow and ice and cold. And then on the way back down to sea level, they get to charge their batteries through regenerative braking.
I have about 12k miles on it now. I don’t know exactly what I lose in real cold weather as I only max drive it about 150 to 200 miles per day. Charges to 325 miles max, but 99 percent of time charge to 80 percent or about 260 miles. I live in Colorado. The Cybertruck is by far the best all around vehicle I have owned. At my age it may be the last I have to buy. I especially like the 240 and 110 outlets for running power equipment and replacing a generator backing up my house power. And the ability to monitor its many cameras remotely on my phone for security. Don’t need outside cameras on the front of my home. I think I have washed it maybe 3 times. The stainless steel always looks fine to me.
The first paragraph of your email might as well be lifted verbatim from Tesla’s ad copy. And no, you don’t have full self driving, you have Level 2 driving assist. But thanks for trying to justify your overpay for a truck with limited functionality!
Tesla’s FSD far outclasses any other technology available today. I very rarely intervene when using it and it has helped when I have most needed it when I am tired, in stop and go traffic, or just don’t want to read the road signs to make the turns. There are no geo fences to using it and it operates on any roads.
Overpay? I paid 80K for it and it will out perform any other ICE truck in its class for what I use it for. Including the top end over 100K ones. Not to mention the massively cheaper cost of ownership.
I find the biggest critics of the truck don’t own one and have very little idea what they are talking about.
Mass-Bytes,
Are you sure you’re not the Director Of Marketing for ‘that company’? 😂🤓🤔
One can buy Cybertruck. One can’t buy class.
Thanx Mass,while not me cup of tea just interested in vehicles in general,hope the little critter lasts you a long time!
My pleasure James. Thanks for civility.
…Need 720 HP “to raise your adrenaline and stir up all sorts of excitement,”
Nothing new – check out the advertising copy for the Jordan Playboy from the 1920’s!
“Somewhere west of Laramie there’s a broncho-busting, steer-roping girl who knows what I’m talking about. She can tell what a sassy pony, that’s a cross between greased lightning and the place where it hits can do with eleven hundred pounds of steel and action, when he’s going high, wide and handsome. The truth is—the Jordan Playboy was built for her.” (feel free to delete if inappropriate!)
For a little bit more than a Camry Hybrid you can get an Ioniq 5 now.
So people pay above $30K for a Hyundai now? Is it self-driving or something?
Maybe Hundai should stick to making EVs given how terrible many of their engines are…
My neighbor has a Hyundai Tuscon (2019 or 2020 model year) and told me that the engines in this model burn oil and have done so for the better part of a decade. He had a newer Hyundai Tuscon, but the electrical system burned up and he had to get rid of it.
Coffee – this is true, but oil burning is more common in newer engines in general now. Not so much a mfgr-specific thing anymore. The piston rings that seal in the oil have gotten thinner over the years.
I once heard from a former GM lube tech that corporate didn’t consider oil consumption to be excessive if it was <1qt every 500 miles. Ironically that's not far from the amount of oil that a "dirty" 2-stroke engine consumes.
At least GM doesn't disable your cruise control when you wear sunglasses like Hyundai does. Yes that's a real thing, google it.
For the past 25 years, in all our vehicles, we’ve been using synthetic oil and changed it about every 10-15,000 miles, sometimes longer. The only car where we had to top off between changes was in our Infinity G35 after it went over 130,000 miles and 14 years.
Yes it is, straight to the junkyard.
I bought a new 2025 Camry SE fully loaded for $27,500 (31k out the door) a few months back.
Deals are out there.
Camry’s are not ICE anymore. I wouldn’t by a hybrid.
🤣 If you have to fill her up at a gas station, it’s an ICE.
$5000 is not a little bit more
Unless you can charge at home, forget buying an EV. That would be around of households
Hyundai sucks
Wolf, maybe you can explain the thinking behind the destination charge to me.
It annoys me as much as the restaurant “4% surcharge for . The charge is not an option, so why break it out separately and piss me off rather than just price it into…I dunno….the price? A separate charge in no way makes the car (or food) look less lower priced, and it just irritates me enough to sometimes walk away. I won’t go to restaurants that try that garbage.
Yes, it’s another tacked-on fee. I’ve been told stories of how once upon a time, they were essentially transportation charges, and these charges differed by how far the dealer was from the manufacturing plants, which back then were likely in Detroit. But then somehow, automakers switched, or were forced to switch, to a standardized charge that’s the same for all dealers, regardless of distance from Detroit. It’s just another profit item.
That destination fee is ridiculous. MB is about half that!
Puddy: “Rust proofing… Transport charge, storage surcharge, additional overcharge, finder’s fee… Floor mats, keys.”
Jerry: “‘Keys’?!”
Puddy: “How ya gonna start it?”
The crew cab on the Raptor kinda mostly washes out the original premise of the fast, nimble, off the show room floor ready desert pre-runner. A super capable off road rig turned into a pavement pounding status symbol.
Kinda like the crew cab Jeep Wranglers. The crew cab takes away all of the short wheel base advantages of a jeep….
I suppose a person does not care when they buy a Jeep Rubicon model….which is off the showroom floor capable of navigating a gnarly off road trail like the Rubicon….but they will not drive over a parking lot curb. Seems a waste of the better suspension and locking differentials they paid for. Same with the Raptor
Cool super off road capable rigs are now driveway and freeway pounders….because somebody on social media said it was the thing, or something.
I have the feeling that most people do not even have a clue what they are buying, and would have been much cheaper just upgrading a fender decal for $100.
If you want to pre-run Baja for a race or smash open desert get a Raptor, if you want to rock crawl a trail get a Wrangler Rubicon…. If you want to get to work cheap and run groceries, get a Toyota Echo.
I find people interesting and funny in their reasonings….or followings, or whatevers.
Haha… I guess I am too task oriented.
Also….I believe that if you don’t use baddass equipment for what it was designed for… it is disrespectful to that equipment and it’s designers.
Just sayin’. Haha
You will these days likely see more women than men driving 4 door Wranglers. The ladies love ’em. They even come in pink, purple and a color called “Bikini.”
I happen to know a middle-aged gal, hotter than a firecracker, who owns one. She bounces that Jeep over curbs, medians and all sorts of urban obstacles, on accident of course. She just laughs and keeps on Jeepin’ on.
What’s the deal with the toy ducks lined across the top of the dashboard?
I am still trying to figure that out….
Just a nerdy hobby that some people like I suppose…. Put a duck, leave a duck, I don’t know if there is any premise behind it though. Just people having some kind of entertainment.
Inside joke amongst jeep owners.
I was told by a Jeep owner they give em out if they like the other’s Jeep. Mutual admiration society I guess.
The Jeep world is very interactive. I had a “rare” wrangler a while back and every stop at a gas station or restaurant would feel like a car meet up if other Jeep owners were around and like DC mentioned, women loved it. Kinda peaceful not having it anymore to be honest.
Well, you’re not buying it to actually go off-road. You’re buying it to tell yourself that you could and because you could your cool. And cool, rugged guys get the ladies. The truck is step 1. Step 2 is to move out of Mom’s basement and stop playing video games so much.
If Raptors, Rubicons, or Cybertrucks could get you ladies everyone would be doing it. How do average guys get beatiful women? They ask.
Right? All those vehicles do is indicate that the dude has a fat wallet and more ego than functional brain cells. She’ll factor that into what size rock for the ring and the settlement terms of the divorce. She’ll take everything else, but leave him the truck.
If you advertise yourself as a mark, you’ll attract the sorts of people looking for a soft target.
You guys are doing it wrong. Motorcycles get the ladies. Four-wheeled vehicles do not.
Bought a 2002 Chevrolet Silverado in 2007 with 50k miles for 13k cash from Chevrolet dealership.
In 2025 it’s running fantastically.
I’m old so I see the inflation from when I was young. My first car was a VW bug which I bought new in 1968 for $1800. I was 21 back then. When I was 8, I bought my first pack of cigarettes. 25 cents at a vending machine in a gas station. I bought my house in 1977, 48 years ago. My mortgage payment was $234.00 per month. The FED’s mandate is “stable prices”. I don’t think that’s what we got.
The Corolla never looked so good! 👍 😆
Corollas are now as big and powerful as Camrys used to be, and much more luxurious. The whole lineup has shifted up over the decades in terms of power, size, and luxury, at all automakers. The other day, I saw an old F-150 (maybe from the 1980s) next to a Maverick, Ford’s new baby truck. There wasn’t any difference in size and height. They’re the same size. It’s amazing how huge full-size trucks have gotten now. Today, Ford’s medium size truck is the Ranger, and the baby truck is the Maverick, and the baby Maverick today is as big as a 1980 F-150. I just looked this up:
I’ve watched that trend too and compared how the volume is allocated between cab and bed.
current Maverick: more people, less stuff
1980 F-150: more stuff, fewer people
Conclusion: people are more social now and less materialistic??? I must be missing some variables.
Anyway, dad spent his career as a Ford employee so I’m happy to see the margins on those Lariats, King Ranches, and Raptors keeping his pension comfortably funded.
Work truck vs play truck…
I don’t usually go shopping on Black Friday because that’s the day when I’m least able to handle this stupid country. I had to go get one thing at the grocery store and while I was walking down the street, sure enough I hear the “wah wah wah wah” offroad tires coming up behind me from half a mile away, and behold, there’s a sparkling clean big ass black truck with a crew cab. The bed was so small that this person couldn’t even lay their giant TV down in it and had to stand it up diagonally across the bed to get the box to fit. I believe much of the purpose of having a truck was so that you can carry things like sheets of plywood. We seem to be approaching a point of crossover where the TVs are larger than a sheet of plywood and the truck beds are smaller. I believe we may be reaching peak America.
My take has been that this car model size inflation is a lifecycle chase.
You buy your kid a Corolla, then when they’re done with college they can replace it with a bigger Corolla, because how they need to haul groceries and fit a car seat in it. Then later they can replace it with an even bigger Corolla after they have a few kids to haul and they graduate to bring American Sized people who are too fat to sit on seats from the 90s anymore. It’s intellectually easier to just keep buying the same car as having to research a new one, I guess..
The problem seems to be though, that they’re not replacing the small cars with new models anymore, I’m not sure why exactly. Or maybe they are, and it’s just difficult to notice. But it’s hard to find much smaller than a versa or Corolla, which are still huge compared with my family car (Subaru) in the 80s..
My problem personally is that I have an old garage and every car is now too big for it. There are a small handful of models that I could conceivably buy. It seems like this is a really stupid problem to have and has made it obvious to me for a while just how huge vehicles have become in the US ..
Seems to me that the thing with the cars getting perpetually bigger started in the late 90s with the SUV craze. My ’07 Civic looked bigger than my ’87 Accord.
Just bought a ’25 Maverick for $33.4K including taxes, “delivery charges”, etc. Has everything thing I want and nothing I don’t. AWD, Hybrid with 37MPG highway, enough bed for runs to the dump and to haul half a yard of mulch, pretty much all I need it for.
Only drawbacks are I can’t pull tree stumps (and don’t need to), and no “compensation” features for fellows that are a tad insecure in features below their beltline. The back seat in the crew cab is kind of a theoretical construct,.. you wouldn’t want a full-grown adult back there for a 300 mile trip, but thats OK.
Pretty happy with it all around.
Eh,loved the old Celicas!
That said,had a 80’s Corolla with the old 2.0 r engine,taken care of a easy 300 thou mile motor.
Hey Wolf,
Great analysis as usual. But i gotta ask…
Where does one actually buy a Ford XLT in anything other than the crew cab?
We’ve been watching the lots for months. I just checked inventory again before posting- there’s exactly 1 available within 100 miles.
What’s with the zero inventory? If the product is unavailable is it really a fair point of comparison?
Looking for practical relief and a little industry insight here.
If you cannot find one in stock that you like, you can order one.
There are some in stock (2025s, the 2026s have not yet arrived) at various Ford dealers here in the Bay Area. Here is one of them:
https://www.hilltopford.com/new/1FTMF1L51SKF46567.htm
But yes, Ford makes a huge amount of profit on the crew cabs, and so it pushes them, and people love them because you can get 5-6 people into them comfortably, they’re like a full-size SUV, but with a bed instead of a third row of seats.
I grew up in Kansas where every boy’s right of passage was to buy a truck. The size of a truck in the 90’s was considerable smaller and most were not luxurious by any means. And now crew cabs come standard. No wonder the price outpaced sedans and sport cars. It’s a shame. I’d like to buy a small truck, but they just don’t exist anymore in the US market.
“I’d like to buy a small truck, but they just don’t exist anymore in the US market.”
See my comment above. Ford’s small truck is the Maverick, it’s as big as a 1980 F-150. The next size up is the Ranger, which is now a mid-size truck. If you want a monster truck, there are the full-size crew-cabs.
The Maverick isn’t a “truck”, it’s an suv with a bed. Small motors/hybrid, soft suspension, plastic bumpers, small cabs and small box. It leaves you with the worst truck and the worst suv.
The fleet guys get the good trucks, simple regular cab trucks with a full size box. Not an option for everyday buyers until they hit the used market but they are the truck for people that need a truck.
The Honda Ridgeline is probably more “truck” than people need. You could buy that, but then people would make fun of your “truck” so it’s not cool.
Base model Tacoma is $32K. That’s $10K less than the base model Ridgeline
Howdy Folks. Writing off vehicles was a great pleasure of mine. Loved driving new vehicles instead of paying the tax to Govern ment.
Sure, you can write it off, but then you pay tax on a larger gain when you sell it.
Howdy Bobber. What if the value when sold is less than zero?
Don’t sell. Drive it until it’s junked
I lease about 45 new trucks (both base model Ford F-150 and the GM / Chevy 1500) almost yearly for work. Those base models are trash. Each year, I will end up sending about a quarter of them over to the dealership for a warranty issue of some kind. Generally, it’s some random electronics issue but not always … I have had two get complete new engines with only 1k miles. Our annual mileage averages about 3k per truck and we still have that many issues. Have them on the base model Dodge ProMaster as well.
It’s not that these legacy companies can’t make excellent vehicles – they can. They just don’t at those price points. If you want quality from an old Detroit company you pay through the nose… or, you buy a Toyota that you keep for the next 20 years. So not only are you paying much, much more (hedonic improvements notwithstanding) but in a very real way, your paying more for poorer quality. A base model work truck should be able to take a beating, tow, etc. and keep running with half the engine on fire but these things can’t even start these days without phantom ghost issues.
I say this also as someone who owns a 1978 F250 that still runs like a champ. It’s pathetic how far they’ve sunk.
You sure about that? The engine and transmission of a base model and a well appointed model can be the same.
As a general rule, stay away from any Ecoboost engine and you should be ok.
Good advice….. Especially those that have the rubber timing belt running through the oil.
Currently traveling the Far East – Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia.
Sad to enjoy riding in the various high quality Chinese EV’s, Beautiful diesel Toyota Helix and other small car Hondas knowing they will unlikely ever meet our shores.
Thank God because if they did, Id love yo see USA automakers attempt to compete.
Honda scooters 150cc are a thing of beauty,performance as well. At 2500USD in warm weather areas they would be selling like hotcakes if insurance was at all reasonable.
Folks, the Far East has its issues and if Far from perfect but the work ethic, motivation to improve their lives is off the charts. Add in Chinas behind the scenes big money I see splashing around daily everywhere, we’d better get cracking.
Americans do not want small cars. And, one main reason those Chinese EVs don’t make it to the US is because of safety requirements and dare I say it build quality. SE Asia is a great market for low cost Chinese vehicles because the average person can’t afford expensive imports.
The Chinese and other Asian EVs have passed all the most stringent safety tests in the west though with flying colors, including NCAP. And the build quality of BYD and the other EV’s are widely praised. They have a huge range of EV’s but all of them from cheapest to their luxury vehicles have got strong marks for build quality and just being fun and easy to drive. It’s why BYD is now well beyond Tesla as top selling EV, with a lot of user satisfaction. I don’t have a particular dog in the fight but like competition to improve quality and price, and the Chinese EV’s would without any doubt help to make prices of US vehicles more reasonable.
In fact if the Chinese EV’s had so many problems, then why put up a 100% tariff on them to keep them out of the US market? If their build quality was so low or other issues, then obviously they wouldn’t be a threat to sales of other brands. And yet the US has been desperate to keep the Chinese EV’s out. (Unless maybe they make a manufacturing plant in the US, maybe that’s being arranged). Maybe because it would show how overpriced most vehicles in the US are and how there higher quality, lower cost options that Americans don’t yet have access to. If so many problems with the vehicles, then remove the tariffs because then there’d be nothing for the fast inflating vehicle prices in the US to fear. Can’t have it both ways.
What about the non existent labor and environmental laws in China? They don’t care about workers or the ecosystem. There is more to it then just just low prices.
US auto workers make 4x more.
US has stricter labor and environmental laws.
Using your logic, we should offshore nearly every job in the US to Asia. It would definitely be cheaper from manufacturing to services. The only problem is most of the country would be unemployed, so who would buy all these cheap Asian imports and services? Who would fund pensions, social security, and Medicare?
Miller,
Tesla builds cars at its Shanghai factory for the Chinese market and competes with Chinese EV makers fairly successfully, including on price. But these China-made Tesla models are different from the models sold in the US, including they have less powerful motors and smaller batteries. So they’re substantially cheaper to build. But Americans like “powerful,” and that’s what they buy when given a choice.
The cheap Chinese models by Chinese automakers cannot be sold as they are in the US due to lacking safety features.
In addition, demand for ICE vehicles in China has collapsed, as demand has shifted to EVs, and ICE vehicle makers are now dumping their vehicles — often dressed up as “used” to get around restrictions – in other countries at a loss. That kind of stuff is illegal in most countries, and those imports can be and should be blocked on grounds of illegal “dumping.”
Many of these automakers are government-controlled or are affiliated with government-controlled enterprises, and you can see how the central and provincial governments push this strategy to crush automakers in other countries.
“Honda scooters 150cc are a thing of beauty, performance as well. At 2500USD in warm weather areas they would be selling like hotcakes if insurance was at all reasonable.”
Honda sells them in the US for about that price, and you can buy them just fine. So why haven’t you bought one yet? They’re not popular except with delivery drivers in San Francisco. The US is not scooter-country like Vietnam or Taiwan. But they’re available and you can buy them. Americans have different tastes when it comes to vehicles than people in other countries. Americans like big and powerful.
Automakers have stopped selling their small cars in the US because there was very little demand for these vehicles. Americans don’t like to buy them, they like big and powerful. That’s just how it is. All automakers have lost teeth trying to bite that nut. A big automaker cannot maintain a low-end model of which they sell only 50,000 a year. They need to sell 500,000 a year to make money on a low-end model.
This is demand-based. There are always some commenters here who say they’d buy that small bare-bones vehicle, but why the hell didn’t they buy a Toyota Yaris or a Ford Fiesta when they were still available (and they were by no means bare-bones)????
We did and still do!
I see the 80’s diesel rabbit standard for sale will buy that death trap in a heartbeat!
Many rotted out due to chems on road because folks cannot drive in the snow/accidents/cash for clunkers ect.,mine got rear ended and insurance said a total,should have bought off insurance and fixed it,was not that bad.
You made my point. You didn’t buy and wouldn’t buy a NEW small car — that’s the only demand automakers are looking for. They don’t care about used vehicles sales. You should have bought a NEW Yaris in 2018 when Toyota still sold them in the US; then you would have added to demand, and if 500,000 other people had bought a new Yaris in 2018, Toyota would likely have continued selling them in the US, and you could buy another new one now.
I did and gladly would.
Maybe because I live in Canada with higher fuel prices and with the savings can travel the world more often.
Choices not luck.
Ya and at 65 can still easily get in and out of a small car. Smaller portions and fitness people. Choices again.
Insurance Wolf.
Canada motorcycle Insurance over 50ccs is nuts for something one can drive part time over a year due to weather.
Cost Sadly far exceeds benefits.
Danno,
I disagree: “Cost Sadly far exceeds benefits.”
Six days ago, it was beautiful and warm in the Twin Cities. So, with my backpack, I rode my Tuono V4 across town to the St Paul Trader Joe’s and loaded up. Upon getting home, the motorbike went into hibernation.
Five days ago, I took my M4 to the self-service car wash and went to work on it. Upon getting home, she too went into hibernation. (A 2016 that has never seen winter or road salt!)
But as seasons change and to be ready, we have a brand new set of Blizzaks on the RX450h; the 40mm tungsten-carbide studded snow tires are back on the OTSO gravel bike. And yes, it’s snowing in South Minneapolis right now. Prairie Rider is set for another winter. Winter is here, without a doubt.
However, the best cure for Spring Fever, which takes hold in mid-February does not: “Cost Sadly far exceeds benefits.”
Hell no. When it’s early March and the roads finally are cleaned off from salt, and they’re dry for the first time in months, the feeling of riding my motorbike and driving the M4 is pure satisfaction.
Life is short. Enjoy it while you can.
“Cost Sadly far exceeds benefits.”
I agree with Prarie Rider. You can’t put a price on the feeling of the wind on your face, or revving the engine after dropping the clutch.
I’m going to speculate that other drivers loving riding around in trucks or full sized SUV’s is connected to the cost of insurance for motorcycle riders. And maybe something about feeling safely surrounded by 5000lbs of metal makes people less acutely aware of their surroundings. Since one of the costs for the insurance company is medical coverage for riders rapidly disconnected from their bikes.
Automakers ruined the small cars by saddling them with anemic powertrains from hell.
Who wants to drive, on American roads no less, a clown car that barely makes it to highway speed before the merge lane ends?
Of course nobody wants a brand new econobox piece-o-crap, but automakers have persisted in trying to pigeonhole every small and affordable option into the piece-o-crap category.
The FRS/BRZ is a good example of an affordable car people want to buy new. It’s one of the cheapest new cars you can buy, but you would never know just from looking at it.
This recipe has only three ingredients: small, affordable, fun.
Automakers keep saying “pick two” instead of just delivering the whole package like we know they could.
The market for small slow (not bare bones) vehicles was ceded to imports. Plenty of them offered by Honda, Toyota, Subaru, etc…. They seem to do okay (except for Nissan). Still wonder why domestics could never compete successfully there with a small awd reliable vehicle.
Of course you are correct that this is demand-based, but why blame it on the commenters? The US has spent several decades putting forward legislation that makes it more profitable for manufacturers to make bigger cars, and particularly trucks. There is no shortage of information about this, how tax-loopholes and tariffs encourage larger car models.
Demand-based, sure. But manufactured demand.
I bought my 2014 F150 XLT Supercrew 2WD in Phoenix brand new on memorial day for 32k, msrp at the time was 37k. I’m at almost 150k miles and still runs great.
I look at the prices now and I will never buy new again. Im driving this one for 400k+ miles hopefully.
As noted in a post by Wolf, the F150 of Today is very different from the F150 of the 80s. For me, comparing the cost of car and houses over the years is an inaccurate comparison as one is not comparing apples to apples,.. literally. An apple or an egg from 1980 is pretty much the same as one from today but a typicalnhouse from 1980 is nowhere close to the one today. I’m tired of the kids wanking on about the cost of a house today after looking at a price comparison. None of them want the 1000 sq ft box that was built in 1980.
But the Camry today is also very different from the Camry in 1990. It’s far bigger and far more powerful, far better performing, far safer, and far more luxurious. It has stuff we could not even dream of in 1990. So its price has also risen, but not nearly as much in percentage terms at the F-150.
And thanks to being a hybrid, the 2025 model is about twice as fuel efficient as the 1990 model (besides being much larger, safer, more powerful, and luxurious).
The inflation-adjusted cost of gasoline today is the same as what it was in 1990.
This means that in real terms, it is half as expensive to drive a 2025 Camry compared to a 1990 model (fuel costs).
The improvements are real.
I looked up the price of a house in Levittown in the late 1940s. Yes, you could buy a house under $5000* in a variety of locations, but
2 Bedrooms, 1 Bathroom
no Garage
total size under 1000 square feet (32×30 was common: 960 square feet).
I suspect that if you were to offer a tiny house in a reasonable location for $130k, you would get a lot of buyers.
= = = = =
*The price was whatever the maximum GI mortgage was that day.
Because of the inflation in the late 1940s, this changed every year or so.
In 1946, I think it was something like $4650, but got to something like $4900 by 1949.
Consumers gotta consume…. That’s what they have been programmed to do…
“Ego buys”…. (Or more likely ego leases). Make a statement to the world with what you drive! Even if you go home to a crappy home or apartment that you rent.
Just pay those “muntlies”
I used to drive small economy cars but switched to a small SUV that sits up a little higher to provide some improvements in visibility and possibly safety. The giant pickups and SUVs will just run you off the road. Not only are king cabs and dualies more popular than ever, a lot of trucks are jacked up so high that their bumpers are at eye level on a normal car.
American consumers are crazed animals driven to keep up with the herd…
Earlier this year I was in the position to need a newer vehicle. For years I have enjoyed driving my parents’ early 2000’s Toyota Tacoma when I was home and have wanted another truck, so stated looking. I ended up looking at a Toyota Tacoma, as it was the only truck I could find in a standard transmission. Cost off the lot was $45,000 or so, including $2500 for the installation of a standard transmission. I ended up going with a mid-2010’s Kia Soul with 55,000 miles on it inclusive of a six speed for $10,000 out the door. With care and luck, this will be the last automobile that I buy.
I cannot imagine spending what people spend on new cars now.
Had some old friends recently get suckered into buying new vehicles at crazy prices like that, and even worse, signing for the 72 month or even 84 month payment plans. Absolutely financial disaster. While some have been notorious profligate and bad with money in the past, a couple I always thought were sober professionals and financially literate. And yet they got suckered in with “well the monthly payment isn’t that bad”.
Forgetting they’re overpaying massively for non-luxury cars (more than 50K sticker price) and now they’ll be paying more than double that total amount with all the interest over 72 or 84 months. We’re not even talking Porsches Audis or Benzes here, more like Wranglers and Rams and they’ll be paying more than 100K over the course of financing it. They’ll probably be getting a new transmission and still paying off the loan. And of course especially in this economy they have little job security, some have an overpriced mortgage in Housing Bubble 2 (even with one of those “sweet” below 2% mortgages their monthly payments are high) and so with a job loss, they’d be looking at potential foreclosure and a car repo. And this being America, maybe going broke from losing their health insurance and having a medical bill too. Little surprise auto loan delinquencies and repos in the US are at all-time high, even worse than GFC or close to it.
Part of me just feels sad for them for digging themselves just a deep financial hole, and more than once I’ve wanted to basically run the numbers by them about how much extra in interest they’re paying for a 72-month or 84-month car loan. But it’s also annoying their bad financial decisions are also driving up car costs for the rest of us. The dealers reasoning now is hoping they’ll have enough suckers out there to mark up the price and add-ons and then fool them with the financing illusions of 6 or 7-year loans. The one silver lining is a lot are feeling buyer’s remorse, and does seem like at least recently a lot less people are falling for it.
It boggles my mind what people settle for in vehicles when they could just as easily by driving the Ultimate Driving Machines – BMWs.
The new 7s are ugly as sin. They have not made a good looking 7 since 1997 James Bond’s 750. I loved my 2006 530, it was pretty great. Did not have many problems, and fixed most myself. The 3s are now 4cyl. The last good looking car bmw made was 2012 3-series convertable.
The E38 Series 7 was produced from 1995 through 2001 and that would have included the James Bond 750 which you like. Your 2006 530 was an E60 and they made from 2003 through 2010. Our Oxford Green over Sand Beige E38 was produced in 1998 and is one of the most stunningly beautiful sedans ever made. Many 3 Series currently produced are 6 cylinder as are many of the the 7 Series sedans. The 2012 cabriolet you like was an E93 Cabriolet and they were produced from 2005 through October 2013.
Yes, I agree about e38. Saw a long version parked on a street in SF that was like brand new in and out. If I had to pick one car to keep that would be it.
I have an E38 with the V12. Unfortunately a lot of parts are no longer available. Mine is a 2000 (LCI) and was just told today by the dealer the lower oil pan is discontinued lol. The water pump is as well (specific to the car for the water cooled alternator). Pre-99 has air cooled alternator and lots of aftermarket pumps available. Oh well hope I can rebuild it in the future never selling the car. Looks like new inside and out and runs great. Was hoping to buy those parts as spares as I’ll probably need them in 25 years.
Still driving my $1500 E39. Over 200k miles. One of the best cars ever made.
The E39 is one of the most iconic and best BMWs ever made and its range of production was from 1995 – 2003 and they are highly sought after by collectors now with a typical price of around $10,000 although M5 version are bringing up to $50,000 or so. We have a gorgeous 1997 540i in Oxford Green over Sand Beige with only around 60,000 miles on it. You got quite a deal getting an E39 for $1500!
We bought a 3 year old Corolla hybrid on CarMax last year, the price was only about 5% less than a new one, not counting the various tacked in dealer fees.
That also happened to me. I once drove a car for 4 years and sold it for same.
why would you buy a used car for the same price as new one ?
In my family we have some folks who like country music.
It’s funny how the idea of owning a truck seems to be associated with penniless kids and the blue-collar workingman, but the modern reality is quite different.
I sometimes wonder how long it will take people to figure out that that association is becoming more and more of a fairytale…
New cars: Not buying one. Insurance rates are sky high here in CA. Not happy with surveillance tech that could be (is?) in the vehicle. Bad enough that my city uses license plate readers. Will be holding on to our 2 cars (24 and 21 years old) until they die. I suspect with their low mileage and my age, I might be the one to go first. ;)
Wolf and readers will enjoy this WSJ headline from today: “American Consumers Lose Patience With High Car Prices”
I can’t understand all the hating on Cybertrucks. If you don’t like one, don’t buy it. I think traditional pick-ups are ugly as sin – but hey, they work for a lot of people who are willing to pay a premium for what they are getting. I own a Tesla Model S and a Tesla Model X and the only thing I can say about the Cybertruck is it seems to have distracted all the haters from the other Tesla models. In the meantime, love the low cost of ownership, love charging them in my garage at home, and love the performance. But I’m not blind to their shortfalls, either. There’s no such thing as a perfect car.
In the words of Jim Gaffigan, “It’s simple.”
Anyone who buys a car built in this century, gets what he deserves.
You can’t turn your head around to see what is in back of your car?
You can’t keep your car in the lane when driving?
You can’t figure out that your oil level is low?
Your tires are losing air?
Good lordy 🤣
But you’re actually using some kind of digital device to post this comment?