Ford F-150 Falls off Cliff in Q1 Registrations, Toyota RAV4 Leaps to #1, Tesla Model Y Gains Share, Still #2 Bestseller in the US

The car and truck bestseller rankings in the US got stirred and shaken in Q1 2024.

By Wolf Richter for WOLF STREET.

Ford pickup trucks are having a hard time, suddenly, and there’s more than plenty of supply and lots of incentives, though prices remains very high. Toyota has replenished inventories of its RAV4 and sales surged, and it leaped to #1, knocking the F-150 off its perch. Despite the shakeups among various models, the Tesla Model Y gained a little share and remained the #2 bestseller in the US in Q1, outselling the F-150 for the first time and by a wide margin, according to Experian’s quarterly report on registrations today:

  • Ford F-150 fell off a cliff. The #1 bestseller in 2023, and off and on for eons, landed in the ignominious #4 spot, with a share of 2.4%, down from a share of 3.1% in Q1 2023, and from a share of 3.0% in Q3 2023. Its ICE truck sales fell hard, but its EV truck sales surged.
  • Toyota RAV4 leaped to #1 bestseller, up from #3 last year, with a market share of 3.2%, up from 2.3% a year ago, when inventory shortages were still handicapping Toyota dealers.
  • Tesla Model Y remained the #2 bestseller, its share edging up to 2.6%, from 2.5% in 2023.
  • Honda CR-V jumped to #3, from #5 a year ago.
  • Chevy Silverado dropped to the #6 spot, having gotten knocked off its #4 spot by the Honda CR-V and the Nissan Rogue.

The red bars indicate the market share in Q1 2024. The purple bars indicate the share a year ago. Note the F-150’s big purple bar, and how its market share withered. The Model Y gained a little share throughout. The Honda CR-V recovered from inventory shortages that had dragged into 2023.

The Ford thing is interesting in several ways. Ford lives and dies by its full-size trucks. They have big-fat profit margins, Wall Street loves them for that reason, and Ford sells them in huge volume, they’re massive money makers. To please Wall Street, Ford killed most of its car models, with the Mustang being the only survivor, because Wall Street analysts kept nagging Ford about the modest profit margins on its sedans. And its SUVs and crossovers are big, but not enough to carry the company.

So sales of F-150s fell this year through May by 7.6% compared to a year ago. But that includes the EV trucks, the F-150 Lightning, whose sales soared. According to Ford’s monthly reports on deliveries, in 2024 through May:

  • Sales of the F-150 Lightning surged by 78.5%, to 13,093 units.
  • But sales of the ICE F-150s fell by 9.7% to 273,885 units.

The troubles with the ICE F-150 occurred even though total new vehicle sales across all automakers in 2024 through May rose by 3.2% from a year ago — meaning, overall sales grew, but other models ate into the once dominant share of the ICE F-150. Ford’s hefty share buybacks aren’t going to solve that problem.

The Tesla Model 3 has gotten caught in the details of the rules around the $7,500 federal tax rebates. Most of the Model 3 versions use batteries by Chinese supplier CATL, and so they don’t qualify for the tax rebates, while many other EVs do qualify, and that is weighing down Model 3 sales. The Model 3, which was #10 last year, has fallen off the list.

Share by automaker.

The top 8 positions of automaker by new vehicle registrations remained unchanged. But Subaru rose to become #9, while Tesla stepped down one notch to #10.

Spread across all their brands: GM (Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, and GMC) remained #1, Toyota (Toyota, Lexus) #2, Ford (Ford, Lincoln) #3, and Stellantis with its gaggle of brands #4.

Share by Automaker, Registrations in Q1 2024
1 GM 15.7%
2 Toyota 15.6%
3 Ford 13.0%
4 Stellantis 9.0%
5 Honda 8.8%
6 Nissan 7.3%
7 Hyundai 5.3%
8 Kia 4.9%
9 Subaru 4.1%
10 Tesla 3.5%
11 VW 3.5%
12 Mazda 2.6%
13 BMW 2.5%
14 Daimler 1.9%
15 Geely (Volvo) 0.9%

EV sales in Q1 accounted for 7.9% of total registrations, same share of registrations compared to Q1 a year ago. There are now 3.6 million EVs in the national fleet that has risen to 289.6 million light-duty vehicles in operation.


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  100 comments for “Ford F-150 Falls off Cliff in Q1 Registrations, Toyota RAV4 Leaps to #1, Tesla Model Y Gains Share, Still #2 Bestseller in the US

  1. David says:

    Hi, Wolf. In the “Share by Automaker, Registrations in Q1 2024” chart, Hyundai and Kia’s shares should be combined under Hyundai. Hyundai owns Kia.

  2. Space Cowboy says:

    Family owned CDJR (w/11 other brands) store continues to ‘rack & stack’ new Ram iron every week. Nothing moving (drive by every other day).
    Their used lots are stuffed with inventory.
    An acquaintance (manages a major auto distribution center) conveyed that more new car dealers are buying consumables from them than through their in-house parts center.
    Thesis: The aftermarket has greater availability at lower cost than from the OEM’s. Plus less inventory to control/manage.

    No position.

    I think you already covered the recent McKinsey EV study.
    Thank You for your forum and thoughts.

  3. Robert Frank Walker says:

    Could be F 150 owner’s are keeping their trucks longer. Also, maybe not enough work to support such a high payment. I know my work truck is a 2006 NPR and I can not afford 100K for another.

  4. Joshwx says:

    Patiently waiting for full sized truck prices to continue to soften before I enter the vehicle market – driving a 2012 Honda Accord with 210,000 miles on it. Still drives like new despite using it as a storm chasing vehicle in my 20’s (hail dents all over). No car payments and cheap to maintain. I can also fit 8’ lumber in my car believe it or not. 50-70k for a truck isn’t remotely appealing right now.

    • SteveNY says:

      I have a 2004 F150 coming up on only 200k miles and I’m also holding out for better prices. I went so long without a car payment and am absolutely terrified at the thought of a 5 year payment at +400$/month. The present t engine on the F still purrs but the rest of the vehicle is falling apart. Plus, it doesn’t help that F leads the league in truck recalls. and it’s not easy fixing problems, it’s major engine problems being recalled. What the heck happened to Ford?!

      • Warren G. Harding says:

        You need to triple that 400/mnth if you are looking at F-150s.

      • Coffee says:

        Set aside the monthly payment in a savings account while you wait for prices to fall. It will help you gauge if you can afford the monthly payment hit, plus you can use the extra money saved to pay down the loan.

    • Brant Lee says:

      We may return to the 1970s when there were all kinds of crappy cars on the road. A lot of people can’t buy even a good used car now. Back then you could get behind some old beater that smoked like crazy and suffocate, and it wasn’t illegal then. People drove cars and trucks into the ground, every last mile possible. Welcome back.

    • Brandon says:

      Our 2016 Prius fits 10ft conduit:)

  5. Nemo300BLK says:

    My business owns 3 late model “top-shelf” *cough* F-150s primarily because of the mediocre Sec179 deduction, and we pay cash for them. This is my last one. The MSRPs are ridiculous for what you get, they aren’t quiet, they don’t ride well, and year after year, it’s the same problems, such as the bad AIPMs and cam phasers. I have a 23 Limited Powerboost, and when it’s time, I will switch to an X5 M60 or X7 M60, built next door in South Carolina. The nice part about BMW is there are a couple dozen brokers across the country who have great discounts on them at all times.

    • bulfinch says:

      The not-so nice thing is that they’re notoriously over-engineered money pits. Sumptuous black holes.

      Japan designs & manufactures the best automobiles in the world today.

      • MM says:

        “Japan designs & manufactures the best automobiles in the world today.”

        I agree.

        Anecdotal, but I see a lot more old (pre-2010) Hondas and Toyotas on the highway in my area than old beemers.

        • Margaret Fagan says:

          My 2000 Accord still drives just fine and looks decent. Might even get it a wash for its 25th birthday. I do have to wait sometimes for my mechanic to find parts. A side benefit is that very few guys in valet parking lots know how to drive stick shifts so they tell me to park over there, usually pretty close to the main door.

        • Rob B. says:

          “Anecdotal, but I see a lot more old (pre-2010) Hondas and Toyotas on the highway in my area than old beemers.”

          I own an old Honda and an old BMW. I think seeing more of the former on the road says more about the cost of replacement parts than it does reliability.

          It’s pretty cheap (and easy) to fix almost anything on an old Honda, not so much the BMW.

        • Wolf Richter says:

          Most of the Japanese cars and trucks you can buy in the US are made in the US. For years, Hondas have had the most US content, behind only Tesla.

        • Cookdoggie says:

          “Most of the Japanese cars and trucks you can buy in the US are made in the US.”

          The RAV4 ICE and standard hybrid versions are made and sourced in N America, but the Prime plug-in hybrid is sourced and made in Japan. That was a big selling point in our decision to buy it.

      • Dave says:

        I was talking with the owner of a European specialist mechanic shop. Guy had seriously expensive cars at his shop, all German or British and high end stuff at that. Shop is always busy so I assume he is reasonable, honest and good at what he does.

        I asked him about which were the more reliable and easier on the wallet to live European brands.

        Paraphrasing and condensing, Porsche and Mercedes are reliable. Worst are BMW and Range/Land Rover. He told me the Bimmers are in the shop constantly.

        The kicker was yes Porsche and MB are reliable, BUT when they do break they rapidly make up ground on BMW because the repairs are so expensive. So wallet death by a thousand paper cuts or wallet death by sliced jugular……..

        My garage: 2 Hondas 1 Lexus and a Miata

  6. R2D2 says:

    Demand for large (gas) pickups across the US is in freefall. Inflation and high prices have hammered the sector. Large pickups accounted for 10-15% of all US light-vehicle sales in 2020, plunging to just 2-3% in 2024. Ford is heavily involved in a fading market. It’s not a good place to be.

  7. Swamp Creature says:

    The US auto industry gave on producing low cost sedans long ago and now they have permanently lost market share in this category. I don’t feel sorry for them. I see them all going under and requiring a massive bailout at taxpayers expense.

    • Yaargh says:

      If Ford would bring back the Taurus or Crown Vic they would stand a chance just from name recognition. But knowing Ford, even if they did they would just strap it with that shoddy 3 cylinder turbo like they put in the Bronco Sport and cover it in plastic panels inside and out to cut costs.

    • Xavier Caveat says:

      That new Mustang looks as if it was a couch potato and ate Pringles all day, virtually no resemblance to a 1964 & 1/2.

      • Bobber says:

        That’s what I thought. It’s too tall and short. I think they scrapped their heritage and tried to mimic a Model Y, for some reason.

    • kramartini says:

      Perhaps management knows that they are doomed and would rather harvest cash than invest in a bleak future…

  8. northernlights says:

    Tesla almost certainly changed the battery pack composition for the long range Model 3 to address the sales fall off that Wolf mentioned. As of last week it qualifies for the $7500 point of sale tax credit which means it is now essentially the same purchase price as the standard version, unless one wishes to lease the standard range model, in which case that also qualifies for the credit.
    I also wouldn’t surprised if they export the USA built standard range model 3 to the EU to avoid the new EV tariffs unless they get a deal from the EU. That’ll help keep the California factory busy.

    • Anthony says:

      EV sales have fallen off a cliff in Europe….

      • Wolf Richter says:

        They fell off a cliff only in Germany on a year-over-year basis, because last year at this time, Germany still had huge rebates on EVs that were set to expire, and it caused a tsunami of EV sales to lock in the rebates. There was huge demand. Manufacturers cranked them out as fast as they could, and people grabbed them. Now, with those rebates gone, sales are down compared this spike in EV sales last summer in Germany.

  9. Crazy Pricing. says:

    Automakers raising prices pushed me out of the market. I can keep driving my old car for now.

    I was in the market for an truck right when covid happened and prices weren’t unreasonable. It wasn’t unheard of to pay invoice and get 0% financing for 60 months. Now these automakers raised prices a huge amount and financing is 5% or more.

    And every truck built today has numerous problems. Tundra engines blow up. GMC/Chevy have lifter collapse. Rams blow exhaust manifolds along with a bunch of other things.

    No way am I paying $60K for some poorly built truck.

    • ApartmentInvestor says:

      Don’t forget the bad AIPMs and cam phasers on Fords and Lincolns that Nemo300BLK mentioned (when the sunroof on my wife’s Lincoln Navigator would not close all the way they could not just “fix” it and had to replace the entire thing for over $2K – more than I paid for my first car). The 2021 Lincoln has the 100K powertrain Warranty like the 2018 Expedition that it replaced and we will sell it before that expires (and it needs another water pump or cam phaser replacement)…

      • Mike G says:

        What is an AIPM? Even Google can’t find this.

        • Mike P. says:

          Application Programming Interface Management.

        • The Struggler says:

          It’s APIM, it’s a computer to manage the excessively complicated radio/ tech features from what I can gather.

          I tend to agree that the forced complexity of very simple things consumes a dizzying amount of resources, both within computing itself (animation in dropdown menus rather than increasing functionality?) and has extended into anything electronic (and we make everything we possibly can electronic).

          From the Web:

          “It’s a small computer module unique to Ford vehicles. The Accessory Protocol Interface Module (APIM) is typically located under the center console. It receives inputs from a variety of sensors, some hardwired directly to it, while most are sent over the bus communications system from the Powertrain Control Module (PCM). These inputs allow the module to communicate with the steering wheel controls, the radio, navigation system and the consumer’s personal cell phone via Bluetooth.“


        • 91B20 1stCav (AUS) says:

          …to reprise the old engineering joke: “…if something works REALLY well, it doesn’t have enough ‘features’, yet…”.

          may we all find a better day.

  10. Ol' B says:

    Maybe people are realizing that a $70k truck that gets 16 mpg and can tow 12,000 pounds (but never does) isn’t necessary for the daily commute of one person 30 miles each way to the office. Maybe Ford needs to position the Escape as their top passenger vehicle, up against the RAV4, Model Y, and CRV.

    • 91B20 1stCav (AUS) says:

      …what was it Iacocca said? Oh, yeah: “…sell the sizzle, not the steak…”.

      may we all find a better day.

  11. Lili Von Schtupp says:

    Took my Ford in to the local dealership I bought it from this weekend, for appraisal. They low balled me to the tune of over $10k less than they are reselling used comps, and sent their smarmiest go-getter salesman using all the same bs tactics from the 1980s. I know they need to get there profit, but c’mon. When I told him I’m looking at a Gladiator, he gave a half arsed pitch on an $75k Bronco. It was too sad to laugh but I got a lil chuckle in at least. Keep it. I always defaulted to Ford, but not anymore.

    When someone would rather buy a Jeep instead of your brand, you got problems.

    To their credit, I know they have their own problems but the Jeep dealership was night and day. No smarmy pitches or bs. Certainly overpriced, what isn’t, but that’s why I have two feet that can walk. But I’ll give him the sale over Leisure Suit Larry at Ford.

  12. Tyler says:

    Great article! I’m really glad to see electric car sales moving higher, but I don’t think they are ready for truck and light-duty trucks yet, they use a lot of battery under heavy loads and towing. Electric cars make great grocery-getters though!

    I’m really glad General Motors is at the top of the list for total sales, great to see an American company there.

    • Bobber says:

      Are electric sales moving higher? The article says EVs were 7.9% of registrations for two years in a row, which means they had the same growth rate as total auto sales. It looks like EVs may be plateauing.

      I’ve heard people say EV sales rocketed early as first movers, trend seekers, and green enthusiasts rushed to buy. It might be slower growth from here. Remaining buyers are more hesitant and demand clear value. Hybrids seem to provide an attractive combination right now.

      • Wolf Richter says:

        “… article says EVs were 7.9% of registrations for two years in a row,”

        No, one year in a row, so to speak: “EV sales in Q1 accounted for 7.9% of total registrations, same share of registrations compared to Q1 a year ago.”

        This steady share of 7.9% means that EV sales grew at the same rate as the overall market. They grew but didn’t gain market share. The culprit for not faster growth was the Model 3, a big seller until most of the versions lost the $7,500 tax rebate because the batteries are China-made.

        • Anthony says:

          So really, Tesla needs the $7.500 off to sell its cars????

        • Wolf Richter says:

          The Model 3 is competing with cars that are getting the $7,500, including the Model Y. The Model 3 was doing great in the years before the tax rebates. The original $7,500 rebates were capped at 200,000 vehicles lifetime per manufacturer. Tesla hit that in 2018, which ended the $7,500 for all Teslas, and was replaced in the first half of 2019 by the phase-out amount of $3,750, which was then replaced by the phase-out amount of $1,875 in the second half of 2019. And then there were zero rebates for Teslas until these new rebates came along in 2023. During this time of 2020, 2021, 2022, and into 2023, with zero rebates, Tesla’s sales exploded.

          Now it’s a matter of price competition. Vehicles that are getting the $7,500 rebate have a $7,500 price advantage over vehicles that are not getting it. Instead of being down to just selling cars, it’s down to playing the very complicated rebate-game.

    • Anthony A. says:

      I remember when GM had over 50% market share in the U.S. Now they are slowly heading into the abyss.

      A year ago, Mary Barra (CEO) was touting GM was going to be all electric by 2030 and now her tune has changed towards hybrids, which they abandoned several years ago.

      Their EV sales do not appear to be going well. I saw a new Equinox EV at the local dealer with a big sign on the windshield offering $7000.00 off MSRP, which was $47,000. It’s been sitting there a while.

    • Wolf Richter says:

      EV truck sales are growing very nicely, even at Ford (+78% yoy). People are buying them. There’s plenty of demand. Let people decide on their own whether these trucks are ready for whatever. These are monster 4×4 600-800-hp 4-door trucks with torque out the wazoo, and so they’re expensive, but so are similar ICE trucks (except the top EV trucks have more power and torque than the top ICE trucks). The reason they’re all now building just these monster trucks is that production is very limited, supply chains have to be ramped up, manufacturing snags persist, which is not unexpected for a vehicle with an all-new design, a completely different power train, and all new supply chains. Getting mass production off the ground on something like this is a Money Suck. Once they got that up and running, you’ll see the affordable two-wheel drive, two-door 300-hp versions crop up at much lower prices.

      • VintageVNvet says:

        Right On Wolf:
        Had an ’84 Chevy 3/4T with the 250 C.I. straight six that was all the truck needed to haul a dual dual equipment trailer loaded with a ride on trencher up steep hills to the old farmstead as well as carry in the bed a couple tons of gravel and other similar loads…
        Not sure the actual HP of that engine, but quite sure it was less than 300, and the way the new all electric motors are arranged, 300 will be more than adequate far damn shore.
        And to be sure, the battery engineering is improving by the day.
        ”Farmed Out” as we ”back to the landers” used to reply to the hippies back in the day, eh?

        • 91B20 1stCav (AUS) says:

          VVNv – you gotta talk the torque! Best.

          may we all find a better day.

    • MM says:

      “they use a lot of battery under heavy loads and towing”

      Even here in northern New England, I see very few pickup trucks being used for actual truck stuff. An EV pickup is fine for casual suburban use / commuting etc.

  13. Home toad says:

    If I bought new it would to deprive me of my need for going to the bone yard and shopping about. Nothing like the fresh musty smell of old sun baked cars in the graveyard.
    Some of the damage done to some of them…not good….Mrs Perkins lost her head in the red Toyota on isle 7 row 4.

  14. Michael Engel says:

    How many 50K/80K Brocos were sold. Women are crazy about them.

    • Wolf Richter says:


      Bronco Sport: 51,991 in 2024 through May, -5.4% YoY

      Bronco: 50,124 in 2024 through may, -16.1% yoy

      Not enough women are crazy about them?

      • SoCalBeachDude says:

        Just a thought, but they could try to re-implement the Dodge “La Femme” concept approach in pink from the 1950s…

    • Nissanfan says:

      They don’t need to sell many. That’s the new business model of automakers – sell less but more expensive cars. Makes it look like less inventory available on dealers lots too.

      • Space Cowboy says:

        Same methodology as air-carriers: less seats, charge more.

        OT: Prime has returned seven of their leased 767’s to the lessor
        [Atlas Air] to focus on international consumers.

        Causality: “Woefully low utilization”


        Happy Motoring……

    • Lili Von Schtupp says:

      Not this woman. I test drove the Sport in 2021 as the dealer didn’t have any Sasquatch models on the lot — was told they were special order only and they definitely didn’t want to accomodate that– and the salesman thought he knew what I wanted, me being a gal and all. Was not in the least bit impressed. Poor handling, awkward interior, way overpriced. Hard pass. It was a far cry from OJ’s Bronco. Maybe some chicks fell for it but not this one.

      Ford needs to dislodge their head from their rear and listen to what buyers want. FORD=Fault of Research & Development.

      • Space Cowboy says:

        Most Excellent – “Fault of Research & Development”.

        Senor Wolf might add his insight the Ford is known for being a finance
        and marketing company.

    • MussSyke says:

      Are you freaking joking, dude? What kind of woman would like a Bronco? Certainly not too many classy types. Or is this just your fantasy reason for buying one?

  15. John Beech says:

    Ford F-150 sales fall off a cliff . . . who’s surprised? Priced one recently? My old truck is quite maintainable, thank you very much while new ones with heated leather seats and every gee-gaw known to man led Ford to satisfy the demand and hike prices by unconscionable amounts.

    Good, I hope they choke on them.

  16. SoCalBeachDude says:

    MW: Ford recalls over 550,000 pickup trucks due to transmission problems which can suddenly shift into first gear at any speed…

    • Wolf Richter says:

      I wonder what that would feel like if you’re cruising at 75 mph on the highway, and your truck suddenly shifts from 10th gear into first gear. I can just imagine the sound that the gearbox makes grinding up all those gears inside.

  17. SoCalBeachDude says:

    We had our little neighborhood car show on Sunday and had 42 cars show up including our 5, 6, and 7 BMWs, and not a single truck of any sort was in the show at all. The most prevalent vendor people brought down was Ferrari and there were 6 there on Sunday. I find it hard to imagine all of this interest in trucks in the car market as they’re just bland utility vehicles of no importance or interest at all in the big picture.

  18. SoCalBeachDude says:

    By the way, the US national debt clock has now risen to $34,951,922,504,777 and is flying higher with every passing second…

  19. Michael Engel says:

    275,000 ICE F-150 plus 103,000 broncos, in the same price range, through May isn’t that bad. The Bronco is a new item. It ate the Jeep Gladiator for lunch. Ford has a profitable financial arm. Other don’t. It finance less, but their profit margin is higher.
    Other co use outside financial institutes to finance sales.

    • El Katz says:

      GM has GM Financial. Bought AmeriCredit back in 2010.
      Toyota has Toyota Motor Credit
      Honda has American Honda Finance
      Stellantis has Stellantis Financial Services U.S. Corp – through acquisition of First Investors Financial Services in 2021.

    • Anthony A. says:

      Ford Motor Credit has been around since before I married my first wife in Detroit in 1975, She worked there for a bit. Her family was all GM though (Dad, uncles and two brothers). I should have known better than to marry into that family!

      • Swamp Creature says:

        If you bought other than an American Car in Detroit and parked it at one of their plants, the union workers would come out a vandalize your car.

  20. Rob B. says:

    Leases count towards “New Registrations” correct?

    I just recently leased a Model 3, the $7500 credit applied to the lease term makes it a pretty good deal. The Polestar 2 is an even better deal, same price but dual-motor vehicle, but there wasn’t a dealer close enough to me to go that route.

    • ApartmentInvestor says:

      @Rob B. mind if I ask what you paid to lease the Model 3? I was wondering if you can get the $7,500 tax credit with the $299/month lease (and what the total drive off was since many “low” leases have a “high” up front cost).

      • El Katz says:

        You aren’t eligible to get the $7,500 tax credit as you are not the owner of record. The credit goes to the lessor and they can pass it on to you if so inclined.

    • Wolf Richter says:

      Yes, leases are registrations. And yes, leases are a way to get around the rebate restrictions. This exception was put into the law to please Hyundai and Kia, whose vehicles didn’t qualify either.

  21. Swamp Creature says:

    Ford’s ambitious electric vehicle plans are being readjusted as the demand for them collapses.

    The automaker is losing $132,000 on every electric vehicle it sold in the first quarter this year.

    Dealers are watching them pile up on their lots, unsold.

    Better short ford stock

    • Wolf Richter says:

      “…demand for them collapses.”

      Sales in 2024 through May:

      F-150 Lightning: +78%
      Mustang Mach-E: +88%.

      More generally: Model Y #2 bestseller in the US overall. Plenty of demand for EVs all around.

      RTGDFA instead of posting ignorant anti-EV bullshit.

    • The Struggler says:

      Ford has no fundamentals going for the business. What it does have is legacy.

      People who love them, LOVE them, and they have an Uncle who will never let them go under.

      Tough short (I have tried!).

  22. danf51 says:

    “But that includes the EV trucks, the F-150 Lightning, whose sales soared.”

    The F150 EV soared to 13k units vs 273k for the ICE version. I’m not sure you can draw much of a conclusion from that. How much money does Ford lose on each EV at those volumes: 5k, 10k ?

    The big 3 all deserve to die. Companies run by professional manager that disdain engineering and would be as happy to be in the toilet paper business as in the car business.

    • Anthony A. says:

      Maybe Private Equity firms will come in and get control of these domestic auto companies and save the day!

    • Wolf Richter says:

      I know it hurts you to read that ICE F-150 sales plunged nearly 10% YTD, while EV pickup sales spiked by over 78%. I feel your pain. But deal with it.

      • Chris says:

        The one hurting here is Ford. A 78% increase in low volume and unprofitable EVs is not going to offset the 10% decline in their most profitable and high volume product.
        Ford is going to have to figure out how to produce and sell EVs at similar margins to ICE. If they are lucky they will be able to sustain current overall volume, just split between ICE and EV. It’s more likely the overall volumes continue to decline in light of soaring prices and higher interest rates.

        • Wolf Richter says:

          Tesla lost money on every vehicle for 10 years. It takes a very long time in manufacturing to ramp volume on a totally new product to produce enough of them to where you start making money on each unit. Reducing the costs of manufacturing the product is hugely important in this process. Tesla did that. Ford is 10 years behind.

        • Swamp Creature says:

          “It takes a very long time in manufacturing to ramp volume on a totally new product to produce enough of them to where you start making money on each unit.”

          Tesla and the other EV manufacturers will be joining Wolf’s list of imploded stocks well before this happens. Taking away the tax credit for rich people to buy EV’s will only accelerate the process.

        • Swamp Creature says:

          I usually avoid the stock market. But I’ve decided to put my money where my mouth is. I’m buying PUTS on Tesla stock. When the stock crashes as it certainly will in the very near future, and joins Wolf’s list of imploded stocks along with nearly all the EV manufactures, I will be sitting in a very good spot.

      • danf51 says:

        Doesnt hurt me at all. I would never buy a domestic PU today. I have a 20 year old Chevy Silverado that still runs great for dump runs and such although I don’t think I would trust it to get me to Rock Springs and back.

        What I’m saying, and I think you also understand: Ford is losing a ton of money on each Lightening sold at volumes of 13k. This says nothing about the vehicle itself.

        If the Lightening had a range of 500 or better, 600 miles, they would be selling 250k/year and I might even be a buyer if the price were less than 80k. But thats unlikely to happen especially with China being excluded from the US car market.

        The greatest impediment to EV’s is pundits willingness to make excuses for technical deficiencies and the impulse to impose mandates as the way to solve the problem.

        Batteries, batteries, batteries. The sad truth is, we are still 3-5 years away from the battery performance needed – maybe if we are really smart and continue to invest vast sums and take big risks: 2-3 years.

        Whens the last time you saw a large “professionally” managed corporation with “ownership” so dilute as to be effectively unowned by a human being, willing to invest vast sums and take big risks AND persevere ?

        • Wolf Richter says:

          “If the Lightening had a range of 500 or better, 600 miles, they would be selling 250k/year …”

          No they wouldn’t. They cannot make even enough of the ones they’re selling now. All EV makers have huge problems ramping up production rapidly. This takes a lot of time.

          The rest of your comment is even greater BS. You’re abusing my site to spread ignorant anti-EV BS.

  23. Debt-Free-Bubba says:

    Howdy Folks. Full size, 8 foot bed was the only way to go…… THE Construction truck for the Bubba s was the only way to go. 8 cyl engine would pull just about anything anywhere. Each would last over 20 years too……

  24. The Struggler says:

    I had recently considered myself in the auto market.

    Looking at prices, financing and ultimately our need: I no longer consider myself in the market.

    I love my not-too-old Tacoma at 11years and 160k miles. The interior is used and the gas mileage has sagged (as it got taller, bigger tires etc) but I am confident that it will continue to run for another decade and 100-150k+++ miles.

    I have been asked in these comments: why am I not sold ok EVs?

    The same reason Toyota wasn’t. Hybrid technology is great! The CEO had to shift the public strategy statement to include a move to pure EV, but

    The market speaks and those RAV4s are pretty sweet. Basically the zone I was shopping in for: reliability, efficiency and affordability (though the prices of used Toyotas caused the Tacoma to be my first and so far ONLY “new” vehicle purchase).

  25. Cookdoggie says:

    Been waiting a few years for RAV4 Prime supply to rebuild. Finally can find them and we just bought a new one. Love it! Goodbye Nissan, forever.

  26. Goldendome says:

    I for one believe new.vehicles besides being too expensive are also way too complicated with features, also driving up cost of vehicles. Every vehicle comes with a 350 page owners manual, a 100 page manual on the sound system, another for emergency alerts, tires…etc.
    Many features are now hidden behind other features and only accessible if you can figure out where it’s hidden. Often the whereabouts are also obscurely hidden in the owners manuals. Geez, I hate that. Then good luck remembering where you found that feature a month later when you want to use it again.
    To me, the last great automotive innovation on the IC engine occurred 30 years ago when fuel injection removed the carburetor, rotor, points, and all that old ignition hardware needing replaced every 10,000 miles or so—and requires little to upkeep.

    • Nick Kelly says:

      GM was so late to real FI, using throttle body ‘squirt’ as a quick and dirty, that when they finally got there, they announced it on the back of the car: ‘Multi Point”

      Re EV : Good news for Rivian with VW hook up

      • Wolf Richter says:

        If that deal closes, Rivian’s runway will get got a lot longer. I just hope that the Volkswagen AG politics won’t destroy Rivian.

    • Swamp Creature says:

      I rented a Nissan Kicks for a week. I wanted simple car to get me from point A to point B. I was shocked to have so many electronic gadgets in the car and beepers going off every other second bothering me and interfering with driving the car. The car was a pile of s$it. I’m glad I found out. Many of the new cars have the similar issues. If you don’t want this stuff, you have to get it as it bundled, and you have to pay for all this crap in the car, and maintain it if it breaks.

      I bought a Mitzibshi Mirage for $11,700 and it gets me around town with no issues like above.

  27. Jeffrey J Szilagyi says:

    Yeah,Ford really overplayed their hand going all-electric all-too-early as well as stopping making cars that average JOE & Jane can AFFORD ! Idiots ! EVERYONE loved the Crown Vic, Town car & Taurus so lets KILL all three !

    • Wolf Richter says:

      Ford is 10 years behind with EVs and now cannot catch up. That’s the problem. Sales of Tesla’s Model Y year-to-date beat any model Ford has, including the F-150. The Model Y is the #2 bestseller in the US behind the RAV4. The F-150 dropped to #4, from being the perennial #1, including last year. Ford is screwed — well, so they’ll do share buybacks to please Wall Street, these idiots.

      I agree with you in terms of Ford’s idiocy of killing its cars, including the Fusion, and letting imports have that business.

      • Swamp Creature says:

        Yep, when I bought a Nissan Sentra way back I just wanted basic transportation. I was completely broke at the time and that “tin can” was all I could afford. I traded in my lemon Ford Mustang (1978) which was the worst car I ever owned in my lifetime. A total piece of crap. After owning that lemon car, I never bought an American Car for the rest of my life. When you lose market share you never get it back. The salesman who sold me the Nissan Sentra (after he talked to the man with the black hat) told me they don’t like selling those low cost sedans because they don’t make much markup or commission. Ford has taken this road today and they are losing market share and heading for bankruptcy.

  28. tim bleich says:

    I recently bought a 95 Tacoma(first year) from an 87 y/o man.He bought it when he was 70.Well I am 70.221 thousand with a five speed and 3.4 V6.Small oil leak but that is it.It features an am/fm radio with cassette.I paid 1800 for it with big tires and real 4wd.Extended cab,split rear window.Drivers seat shows some wear.Being funny.Happy.Simpler the better.

  29. BS ini says:

    Tyler Tx ford dealer had advertised 2024 new F150 STX for 45k 10k off sticker . Plenty of 250 Lariot models for 80k . Load up the truck !!

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